Let’s start with the facts and move on to the analysis. The Tigers have sent closer Ugueth Urbina, their most tradeable commodity, along with Ramon Martinez for Phillies infielder Placido Polanco, the Phillies most tradeable commodity.
The Tigers have definitely improved their second base position which has been an offensive blackhole this year. Tigers second basemen have hit 231/271/347, with Omar Infante providing most of the plate apperances. Polanco is a career 295/339/410 hitter and excellent defender.
The Tigers traded from a position of stregth, their bullpen, to strengthen an area of weakness. The tenous thing is that the closer duties now fall squarely on Troy Percival’s shoulders, which support an arm that recently caused him to go on the disabled list. Tigers bullpen depth with Franklyn German, Jamie Walker, and Kyle Farnsworth will still be a plus.
The biggest question is whether or not this is the right direction for the Tigers. They are 11 games out of first place, and Urbina could have delivered a couple of top prospects (or draft picks if offered arbitration). Latroy Hawkins, a lesser closer netted the Cubs Jerome Williams and Dave Aardsma last month. That the Tigers are making a move to compete now means either 1. they are delusional, or 2. there is yet another move coming to help them compete now. By all accounts, Magglio Ordonez won’t be ready for another month, which won’t make Rondell White expendable for quite some time, so I’m not sure what else is coming.
In terms of contracts, the Tigers it will pretty much be a wash. Ubrina and Martinez were slated to make $5 million and Polanco is being paid $4.6 million (plus the Tigers will be paying someone else to take Martinez’s spot). All 3 players will be free agents after this season.
Other questions this trade raises that I don’t know the answer to:
- The Tigers only have 24 men on the big league roster, and they’re in National League parks this week, and Carlos Guillen is day-to-day. They could use everybody they can so who is the other player to join the team?
- Is Carlos Guillen only day-to-day or is he facing extended DL time? Was this part of the motivation for the trade?
- What happens to Omar Infante? Being a backup won’t help in his development, and I don’t imagine the Tigers are willing to give up on him. Will he move to shortstop, or will Tony Giarratano continue to back up Guillen?
There are too many questions still unanswered to know if I like this deal or not. I think the value is fair, I’m just not sure if I agree with the philosophy.
I got a comment…
What the @#%#!
Maybe the market for closers was shrinking, the Mets, who’ve always been among the teams listed as needing a closer, recently signed Graves.
Guillen is probably going to go on the DL, according to Will Carroll, which leaves the Tigers short a middle infielder. Will we see Raburn? More likely Smith will come back.
Eye on the Future and the future is imediate.
I think this team has to get good and get good in a hurry. So we don’t have time to develope one of my favorite players(infante). We have a weak minor league system so we need to improve the big league team via free agency. This move will help us win this year, and we need to be above 500 to attract big name free agents.
Billfer, I think your analysis is dead-on. When I first heard this, I immediately assumed Guillen had played his last game for a while. It’s really the only way I can rationalize such a move. Especially when you consider the timing.
The way Urbina has performed the last 5 or 6 weeks, leads me to believe we could’ve landed at least one solid prospect for him. Maybe a prospect and a Vet to plug the 5th spot in the rotation? We don’t even have a number 5 right now.
Polanco seems a move made for the immediate performance of the squad, and I just don’t see this guy pushing the Tigers over the hump.
And about Guillen:
Why the hell is our coaching staff running him so hard when he’s already rolling around on a bum knee? That play at the plate last night was ridiculous. I knew he was out the moment the ball landed in the outfield. Prior to that he moved to second on a barely passed ball. That was probably his call, but I cringe everytime I see that dude running around the bases and I can’t fathom pushing him as hard as Samuel did last night on that play at the plate.
As a Tigers fan living near Philly, I can tell you Polanco is a very solid player. He hits for a good average, has some pop and puts the ball in play (only 39 K in 503 AB last year and only 9 K this season). He is professional and should be a plus to the club.
Whether this move makes sense as far as timing remains to be seen. The middle infield situation would suggest it does make some sense. If another move is on the horizon, that too might explain it.
There have been many cases where the trade market has dried up the nearer the deadline you get. There’s no guarantee that Ugie would have brought a top prospect or multiple players in return. From a value standpoint, as was stated by our host, this trade is fair.
From what I heard on the Philly radio, Urbina was going to be traded in the next few days regardless. If that’s the case, I doubt they could have done better.
For what it’s worth, as a Phillies fan, I think it is a great trade for the Phils in terms of its timeliness, but I don’t think it is terribly uneven.
Maybe I was delusional, but I sort of assumed Urbina would be dealt for a top-flight prospect or a couple of good ones. But Polanco is a solid major leaguer who definitely fills a need right now. As you said, Billfer, second base is already better than it’s been all season for the Tigers.
The trade looks like an indictment on Infante’s struggles and a credit to the bullpen depth.
I wonder which other NL East team Dombrowski was considering a deal with? Atlanta?
Quick tasty snack of offense!
He’s only a 1-year guy, though, unless we sign him longterm. Curious. Anywho, I agree that sitting Infante won’t help him– he needs to either play or get sent down the minors and play. With all the injuries, though, he could probably still get quite a few ABs up here. He can play more than one position.
Tigers are 5th in the league in Pitching, and Hitting, but why are they 29th in fielding. It is ironic that this team fields so poorly considering Tram was so solid with the glove along side Lou. I can understand wanting to get some good glove to compliment a solid stick- as it seems they found in Placido Polanco. BUT Ugie has been pretty solid all year, yes he rarely strikes out batters 1-2-3, but when he’s focused and in the zone, no one can touch him! Which is why with Percival coming back and most of our startes going 6 inn. Ugie/Farsworth are the two setup guys for Percival to close ’em up in the 9th. Does anyone else out there see this as a Bad Trade???
Danny Knobller just stated on the radio (1130) that Urbina has been becoming a problem in the clubhouse and they had an incident with him related to alcohol on the plane recently. Pudge even gave a “mild” thumbs down to the deal.
The plot thickens…
I actually kinda feel bad for Ugie. The free press article on the trade today included comments from Dumbro to the effect that the team was trying to accomodate Ugie by trading him. How does this trade accomodate the poor guy? It also seems that the Philly’s are asking for a peck of trouble. If he was becoming a problem here, I imagine he’ll be even worse there.
I dont necessarily want to use the word *delusional* among friends, but it seems to me that if you thought Ugie was going to garner hot prospects, you may have been very close to that *D* word. Nobody considers him a top closer, and the market has probably corrected itself in that regard anyway. He’s worth Placido Polanco, and if the Phils asked for another warm body, let them take the useless Ramon Martinez and have fun with him.
Ron Reiss over at TigersCentral.com offered a couple interesting scenarios moving forward: one, the Tigs flip Polanco by the deadline for prospects (unlikely, but possible), or two, the Tigs play the arbitration game with Polanco just as they would have with Urbina.
Again, first scenario is unlikely, but the second scenario is not a bad thing. The *danger* of arbitration is that the player accepts, and in Urbina’s case, that would mean overpaying for a middling reliever next season. Basically I’d rather be saddled with Polanco than Urbina. And if he Polanco rejects arbitration, Detroit gets the compensatory pick and thus gets the prospect, albeit a little further down the line.
One more thing – I think the bullpen is fine. Farnsworth could close games just as well (if not better) than Ugie or Percival. You dont have to have that magic closer pixie dust to pitch in the ninth inning. And there are always solutions for middle relief.
Can we please stay away from Farnsworth as a closer? Please? Can we remember what he did in Chicago when they asked him to close? Can we remember how he became marginally less effective here when he had an opportunity to get a save? I love the dude, but I do NOT want to see him used as a closer.
Wow. Jason you’ve pulled a one-eighty from the beginning of the season.
And yes, nobody considers Ugie a top-closer. It doesn’t matter. Pitching is a premium, especially to a club looking to make a move down the stretch. He’s a late inning guy who’s currently mowing down the opposition and I think had we waited, we could’ve nabbed a good prospect from a desperate team. The cubs and mets were ripe for the picking. And don’t talk to me about Graves. Dude just got dumped outright by a crappy team.
I agree with you however that the bullpen is fine. This move doesn’t hurt the team, but it sure as hell doesn’t do much to help it.
There’s nothing like a questionable (and i’m not necessarily using that as a euphemism for “bad”) to get the fans all riled up 🙂
This is a good trade. Polanco is a steady everyday player and we got him for a good pitcher, but let’s face it, Urbina only pitches 5 or 6 innings a week. Neither one is signed sfter this year and the salary is a wash. If Polanco does well they will either trade him for another useful part or sign him up for a couple of years. If he’s lousy they let him walk. Urbina was gone anyway. I’d rather have the everyday player anytime. Infante will still have a chance to put things together. Depending on how bad Guillen is hurt, Infante or Polanco may end up playing short. They have enough bullpen arms that the wheels shouldn’t fall off. I like the deal.
I don’t think you can underrate the impact that Uggie’s drunken fight had on the timing of this deal. I think that was the primary reason they got rid of him right now, not as an indictment of Infante. Polanco was they best they could get at the moment, and it’s a pretty decent deal for both side, IMHO.
Not sure how I have pulled a 180 from the start of the season, Joey. I thought they should hold on to Urbina early on because the bullpen was kind of an unknown quantity at the time. But I dont ever remember saying Urbina would net two prospects a la Latroy Hawkins. (And dont worry, never in a million years would I have mentioned Danny Graves.)
I think adding Polanco could do a helluva lot to help the team, considering the counter-production the Tigs were getting from second base. Its not a premium offensive position but Infante had turned it into a complete sinkhole.
As for Farnsworth as a closer, again, there is no magical power associated with closing games. I know a lot of the mainstream media likes us to think there is, but the truth is that the majority of major league pitchers can get three outs without giving up a run. Just because he *failed* as the Cubs closer (how many chances did he get, anyway?) has no bearing on what he could do now. He’s easily the Tigers best reliever at the moment.