2007 Season, Game Post

Game 92: Tigers at Twins

207 Comments

PREGAME: Do the Tigers have a third straight 1-0 win in them? Probably not, but getting more than 1 run would be a feat against Johan Santana. It’s the second half of the season, and that’s when Santana is at his best. Over his career Santana allows a .583 OPS in the 2nd half of the season.

Detroit has faced Santana 3 times this year, and they’ve handed him a loss, a win, and a no decision. They have taken him deep 4 times in those 3 games, but that’s about the only chink.

The Tigers will send out a lefty of their own in rookie Andrew Miller. Miller was doing pretty well in his last outing until a single and a couple walks loaded the bases and set up the remarkable weirdness that involved Guillen and Beltre and Froemming oh my. This will be his 2nd start against Minnesota. In the first, he didn’t pitch that bad, but 6 of the 8 baserunners he allowed ended up scoring.

Granderson is 0 for his career against Santana so Ryan Raburn will lead off and play centerfield tonight as part of an all righty lineup.

DET @ MIN, Wednesday, July 18, 2007 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 8:10pm

POSTGAME: Another battle with the Twins, and another compelling game. I won’t say a great game because if you’re a Twins fan this had to be a real tough loss. The Twins put pressure on the Tigers with a baserunner (or more) in every inning, yet could only muster 2 runs. And one of those runs was when Miller plunked in a run. Plus they had their ace, pitching very ace like, and couldn’t turn it into a win.

But, for Tigers fans it’s a great win where the bullpen held up and Magglio Ordonez appears to have returned to form. We’ve fretted a little over the last couple weeks about Maggs not driving the ball. Twice tonight he hammered balls to left center and that’s where he’s at his best. Although I think Maggs would be happy to share RBI duties with the rest of the lineup.

  • Twelve tenuous outs and only 1 run. In the end the pen got the job done again.
  • The Tigers lost both left fielders tonight. I’m not sure of Craig Monroe’s ailment, but Thames did something to his left hamstring when he made a spectacular catch in the 8th inning. I’m guessing Ryan Raburn starts and if the DL is involved we’ll see Timo Perez. I’m sure Leyland was going to look to give either Maggs or Guillen or Polanco or some combination the day off tomorrow, but they may be short handed.
  • Speaking of the catch, it was incredible, but thank goodness he made it. If he doesn’t get it we’re looking at a tie game.
  • Carlos Guillen’s 15 pitch at-bat was pretty incredible. Plate appearances that long are rare to begin with, but I wonder how often Santana has ever had to work that hard for an out. That was an innings worth of pitches.
  • A decent outing for Andrew Miller. He looked good at times, but struggled with control other times (4 walks and a HBP).

UPDATE: In Leyland’s post game presser he said that Marcus Thames “is not good.” If Thames hits the DL, it very well may be Chris Shelton who comes up. If Monroe isn’t hurt, then the outfield is covered, but there is no back up first baseman (although Rayburn could probably do that as well).

207 thoughts on “Game 92: Tigers at Twins”

  3. Billfer, are you going to keep track of Miller’s pitch selection/inning tonight?

  4. Rod just started to allude to it right when I started to type but, I’d like to see miller more towards the middle or third base side of the rubber to help him get inside on RH hitters.

  6. Anyone who’s watching the Twins feed – do they agree that Miller’s motion looks primed for future arm trouble? I think I’ll email Carlos Gomez and ask him…

  11. Ah! the lineup. I misunderstood. I know one thing. I don’t want to watch a no-hitter tonight.

  14. Walewander: Blyleven (who does Twins color) isn’t a fan of his motion. Wants him to start throwing with his legs, rather than “using his arm as a whip.” On the other hand, Blyleven also said that he started out the same way, until a pitching coach made him step over a folding chair while pitching. So he sees potential.

  15. Thanks Nate – I know the throwing across his body worries me, but I know very little about that sort of think. Obviously he can get hitters out throwing this way, but maybe he won’t be able to stay healthy.
    This is the kind of stuff that makes me worry he should be at AA.

  16. I believe I read from Lynn Henning online back in April-ish, that they were getting Miller to quit throwing across his body down in Lakeland, which had something to do with his mediocre numbers down there.

  17. Thank you, Magg’s. This is a good sign; maybe that slump i thought that was coming on is staying away for another little bit.

  20. Maggs! Reminds me of that Friday night game in Minnesota almost a year ago, early double off Santana to drive in a couple that time too.

  23. Thanks for that Tram Fan. I remember watching that as I believe it was on WGN that day. I’ll always remember Chip Caray’s “Here comes the hook” for the 20th K.

  24. Re: This is the kind of stuff that makes me worry he should be at AA.

    This the kind of remark that makes me crazy. His ERA is currently 3.17!

    Let’s recap. The Tigers are not a young team. They have one everyday starter under 30. They have a good foundation of young pitching. But by 2009, you gotta replace half this lineup. This or next year is THE year. Miller is by far one of your top starters. Let him just be. You don’t let him work on his mechanics in AA. You don’t sit on tradeable prospects with hopes for 2010. Miller stays and we trade for bullpen help and we go for it this year.

  26. I agree Stephen. Earlier I was on the more overprotective side of the fence (the Mom in me). But now I say keep him up and let him pitch.

  27. That was a heroic at-bat by Guillen. Possibly shaving two innings off Santana’s night.

  28. Stephen you misconstrued what I wrote. I stated clearly that obviously Miller can get MLB hitters out, but if he needs to work on his motion or risk injury (of which I’m not sure) he should do it in AA.

    How about combining the two bees in your bonnet – whaddabout Miller to Texas for Otsuka?

  29. I watched that game while living in Chicago. I hate the cubs too and never watched games. I just happened to have it on in the background and then tuned in once I realized what the kid was doing. Chills inducing stuff to be sure.

  30. Walewander: Sorry to be snappy, bad day at the office. I think if you trade Miller for Otsuka you’re just creating another hole. It’s a good thought though.

    Who’s the Tigers’ 2nd best prospect after Maybin?

    How about the outfield prospect who is highly touted, but behind Maybin? I can’t remember his name…

  31. Haha…Miller for Otsuka.

    How bout Babe Ruth for the rights to a song and dance number.

  33. Stephen:

    I know this should annoy you:

    There are still fourteen days to hem and haw about it, why do something sensible about it now?

    As a side note, here’s wishing your day went unscathed in NYC today… and all is well

  34. How was that an error on Inge? I’ve seen sure fire errors go as hits in this league…and they call that a freaking error?

  35. Whew. That woulda been tough on Miller.

    And no problem, Stephen. I was kidding about the Miller deal – I think he has more value than Otsuka even discounting age and $$…

    and I think you’re thinking of Gorkys Hernandez, which may be interesting.

  36. If anything they could’ve given one to Marcus for playing hot potato with that ball. He looked like a left fielder on that play.

  37. If you’ve ever whined about the number of Inge’s errors, you should realize that this is exactly the kind of situation that often engenders them (i.e., a whole lot of nonsense)

  39. Dave, I don’t agree with that at all. If anything I think errors are too seldom scored. Most of his errors are errors.

    Kathy’s right I think…that should’ve gone against Thames if it has to go against anyone.

  41. Miller’s ERA coming into tonight was 3.35 (which went down so far) but his FIP (fielding independent pitching, a.k.a. ERA without defense involved) is 4.67. His ERA is deceptive.

    I am coming around on keeping him up as long as he uses his change up about 10-15 times a game.

    And the OFer you’re thinking of is probably Gorky’s Hernandez. I’m not sure that he alone would bring in the prime relief that you’re looking for (and there isn’t much prime relief out there) but the system has a big drop off after Miller and Maybin.

  43. That error may even be over-turned by the end of the night, or by tomorrow. That simply is not an error. I only saw the play once, and would like to see it again to be sure, but I remember thinking it was absolutely insane to call the play an error on Inge… if anything, Thames should get the error for bobbling the ball? Again, would like to have the luxury to see the replay.

  44. 4.67 is better than what Maroth was putting up.

    Side note: I was at BP in Seattle on Sat – watching Inge take infield was a definite highlight. You get a real sense of just how incredible these guys are up close. And Sheff was taking grounders at SS!

  47. That pitched called for a srike was the exact same pitch called ball four to Punto

  48. Now they’ll take the previous error away. He does that so often it’s sick! And that one was exceptional with shards of bat flying at him.

  51. Walewander Mantra#1. I like. Somebody please convey to Hernandez/pitching staff

  52. Joey C: This all comes back to the ages-old Inge argument. Sure, it looks like an error, but does it deserve to be counted as one when the vast majority of third basemen just let balls like that fall for hits unimpeded? From my perspective, he is punished by lazy scorekeepers who don’t understand his freakish range. From that of others, apparently, he botches easy plays.

  53. Joey C. You’ve got me mixed up with Keith on the error thing. But, I couldn’t see what Brandon did to get an error. I think Marcus plays 1st pretty good for only 3 months at the position. Casey looks good because he is good. Hope they hang on to Marcus and get rid of Monroe.

  54. I was at Millers last start in Seattle, sitting 3rd row second level,slightly to the 1st base side of home plate…His pitch angle looks much more difficult for the hitter on TV than in person…

  55. Kathy I see a “K” and I automatically assume it’s you! Sorry to you and Keith.

    I think Thames has played admirably given his unfamiliarity with the position.

    That walk hurts.

  56. Certainly not a bad walk to Cuddyer. Hopefully Morneau stays with the form of his last two at bats.

    D’OH!!!!

  59. Love Miller’s moxie, but seems to hit a wall in the 5th inning (2nd or 3rd game in a row?)

  61. I really want “Stretch” to catch on nationally for his nickname. I don’t know why, but I like it.

  62. The good thing is Santana’s not lasting much longer then Miller. Especially if we can get a couple on in this inning.

  64. Miller still maintains his poise in those pressure situations. The walks were bad, but his poise and ability to hang on are priceless.

  65. Classic Miller inning: frustration followed by stunning stuff followed by more frustration followed by three crazy sick great pitches. His stuff is electric.

  66. Love Miller composure.
    Joey C, I’m not faulting Thames at first, I just would like to see him as the everyday LF. While I’m not a huge Casey fan, I feel the best lineup for the Tigs is Thames in LF and Casey at 1st.

    Love the civil discussions this year as opposed to last year!

  68. Give me 5 innings with the lead from my number 5 starter every week and I am more than happy.

    Maggs Again!!!!

  73. I don’t think you send Miller back out because I’m pretty sure the next 3 hitters are right handed. if there was a lefty leading off, I would entertain the thought. And now the 4 inning roller coaster that is the bullpen takes over. The fun just doesn’t end.

  74. apparently monroe was pulled because of an injury…unfortunate for him but may facilitate (big word..) some better lineups for us

  77. you can’t get a better sign of a comeback than a double and HR off of Johan Santana

  79. I think Zach Miner goes back down to Toledo. We have a guy essentially just like him in Durbin who is out of options. Other guys could be Capellan (but he threw a fit when the brewers put him in Triple-A and requested a trade) or I believe Macay McBride has options but I like having McBride and Seay with as short as guys like Robertson and Miller tend to go in games so that gives us big time flexibility to match up out of the bullpen (even though I think it’s mostly overrated, to be honest).

  81. On the subject of trading Gorkys, can we make a trade sometime between now and the next batter?

  85. how about we not trade anyone? The bullpen is actually in fairly decent shape now, and even guys like Grilli have been more unlucky than bad (check out Grilli’s ERA vs. his FIP).

  86. now watch as Bobby Seay loads the bases in an attempt to obliterate my point entirely

  87. Stephen, I was just speaking in terms of guys likely to get sent down if we need to send someone down. I do think Grilli may get walking papers before that. And just because the bullpen’s been good the last “inning” as Sam’s data has collected, doesn’t mean the bullpen issues are solved. Who knows if Rodney’s arm is okay and won’t flare back up. Who knows if Joel could throw over 90 mph when he comes back or be able to snap off a breaking ball with that middle finger. The pen still has a lot of questions and simply because they’re doing well at this present day isn’t reason to sit on our hands.

  88. I kid you not, I was just thinking that Leyland should bring in the right hander with 2 strikes because Redmond was on everything.

  89. wow. I hate this move. I just checked a different station and came back, so Seay’s not hurt is he?

  98. Dave: If this bullpen as presently constituted wins the AL East I will buy you 4 tickets to the Tigers game of your choice. If the bullpen as presently constituted wins the AL i will buy you 8 tickets. If the bullpen as prestently constituted win the World Series I will buy you 12 tickets and shave my head underneath the Tigers statue at Comerica.

  99. So if the Tigers end up winning this, the Twins fans will point to all the missed opportunities. If the Twins win it Tigers fans will point to the fact that they flirted with disaster all night and it finally came back to bite em.

  100. Wow. Can’t believe we got through that.
    I was in another chat and said “Why is Leyland fooling around with Grilli and Seay? Get Durbin or Miner in there!”.

  103. Maybe Leyland told Chad to plunk him. It seems to have all worked out in the end, right? My faith runs deep today I guess.

  105. The failure to make Santana work in the 7th is going to keep Granderson on the bench.

  108. I don’t know enough about baseball to question Leyland’s move, but i’ll do it any way. (That’s what makes America great!).

    Uh, remove a pitcher in mid-batter, you p–s off that reliever and all of his colleagues. Do it and the next pitcher hits said batter and you look like an over-thinking micro-managing nut job. I mean if you don’t pinch run for Casey or pinch hit for a slumping guy by sayng as Leyland did earlier this year ‘he’s my guy if i have to pinch it for him, we’re in trouble,’ then how the heck to do you pull a pitcher mid at-bat?

  110. I have to agree with Billfer – Redmond was on Seay, fouling off what – 5 straight? Just waiting for his pitch.

  111. Wait a minute, when did we move to the AL Central? Is Ausmus still our catcher? Torey Lovullo’s still our star of the future, right? Is that why i go to Michigan & Trumbull and sit in the dark?

  112. i don’t remember him doing it to Justin in the playoffs, but I remember him doing it to Rodney during a big time blowup in Toronto where Rodney walked like 3894 guys and gave up that amount of hits, too.

  113. I lose my mine whenever Seay pitches to a righty anyways.

    Thats living life on the edge.

  114. Aw, a swing and miss for Polly. Hate to see that. Anyone keeping track of his misses for the year?

  119. Give me a manager who goes by the percentages and doesn’t insert himself into the action and i will die happy. let the players play.

  120. Yikes. This means Jones, at the least, will have to go through the heart of the Twins order. I have a bad feeling about that.

  124. Yes, percisely, having the best record in baseball is why you trade prospects for bullpen help. If we were mediocre i wouldn’t advocate making a trade. We have best starting five in baseball, the best offense in baseball, and, i think, something like the 10th or 11th best bullpen in the American League. Let’s try and move that bullpen into the top five and we might hoist a pennant. And don’t keep hoping for Zumay’s miracle return.
    Gorkys for Dotel!

  133. Holy crap that was a ballsy play. He doesn’t make that and it’s a tie game. Hope you’re okay Marcus. With Craig leaving I’m really not anxious to see the Timo Perez era begin.

  135. Is it wrong to hope that “Raburn, LF” is on the lineup card tomorrow for Detroit over Monroe?

  136. Hey Mike Vick is fast and potentially looking for work. Maybe he takes a spot 😉

  138. If Marcus is out (and CMo isn’t badly hurt), then you’re going to see Monroe and Raburn in LF, probably bring up Timo.

  139. I probably will buy it, i just travel a lot so seems like a bit of a waste. But what you get a taste of sweet, MLB Extra innings goodness, it’s hard to go back to MLB radio.

  140. Oh man, I forgot Craig went out with an injury already, too.

    So let me revise: Is it wrong to be excited for “Raburn, LF” at the expense of an injury to Monroe?

  142. I think merely suggesting trading the fabulous, legendary, Hall of Fame bound Maybin is grounds for getting banned from the site. I now only float trading Maybin from my black ops email account.

  144. Stephen I have had it for a while, I cant imagine not doing it. For 160 bucks its a steal.

    Maybe when Billfers blog gets big enough we will have streaming TV.

    And HHHHHHHHHHHhhhheeeeeeres.. Jonesy

  145. Yikes. What would it take to get this guy? Darn it that he’s in our division.

  146. Mike R – You just gave me the best laugh I’ve had all week. That was good. Thanks.

  147. I’m going go get some Ben and Jerrys. By the time i get back i will either be celebrating with my strawberry ice cream or self-medicating.

  148. Stephen – i don’t ban people for ridiculous assertions 🙂

    Seriously, I hear what you’re saying and understand your point of view. I just come to the exact opposite conclusion.

  151. Ben – I just typed nearly the same exact thing about Neshek. Didn’t post cause you beat me to it. Wicked wicked stuff.

  152. Hey slightly off subject……… I am going to Phoenix next month, has anyone been to Chase Field? Brewers are in town

    Steve

  159. I havent smoked since 97, but I feel like I need to. Leyland is probably having two, one for the toss and one because Jones is in

  161. No problem Keith. I aim to please.

    Is there anything better then slo-mo replays of players/coaches/managers arguing and seeing every obscenity in the book slowed down?

  162. That was a great K of Morneau. His late swings to the opposite field were making me think that he was going to luck into a bloop double to left. I’m glad he’s on the bench now.

  168. The ESPN telecast is blacked out for me. I’ve got ESPN News on the regular ESPN station for the duration of weeknight Tigers games when they’re on ESPN. Who’s doing the game on there right now? If it’s Sutcliffe then I’m sorry for your ears, Steve.

  170. I think Steve Phillips is one if the guys, I rarely watch ESPN BB, I have Extra innings and am now thinking it may be good to check there

  173. Come on Jonesy. We pull this out I may just stay up straight through tomorrow’s opening pitch.

  174. Joe Morgan, Jon Miller, Steve Phillips, Skip Bayless – all morons.

    I do enjoy me some John Kruk though.

  176. I actually like Steve Phillips. I think he’s their best baseball guy there aside from the sports writers like Gammons/Olney/Kurkjian.

    Yes, Todd! And now it’s time to go celebrate.

  177. No they don’t Jim. Miller is one of the best around. Too bad he’s paired with Morgan.

    Nice win!

  184. Afternoon game Thursday guys, …………. good time to take a late lunch at Buffalo Wild Wings all BWW’s have EI.

    I like the Caribean sauce, it makes me sweat so It looks like I am enjoying the game 😉

    Steve

  186. Oh YEAH! Another 1 run win. On the road. Against the Twins. And Cleveland lost. Now I just hope everyone’s healthy and let’s keep it going tomorrow.

    Fun night, everyone. Thanks.

  187. I’m find myself in unchartered waters at the moment. I’m not used to enjoying wins like this one. This is usually how the Twins manage to scratch out wins.

    Guess I’ll accept the W and sleep well.

  189. Sutcliffe is horrible. I watched Clemens pitch against Minnesota a couple of weeks ago and I almost forgot what his real name was because Sutcliffe refused to call him anything but The Rocket. He is bad TV.

    Great win by the Tigers. They had so many opportunities to give up another run or three, but they found a way to hold. Much like bilfer said, MN fans are going to be very upset about all the missed opps. I, on the other hand, am very pleased. Maybe I will have some celebratory strawberry ice cream like Stephen.

    Great game Maggs! Bullpen scared us, but did the job.

    Kathy – That win was a birthday present for the DTW!

  190. Stephen:

    I’m passing on that bet. I’m not crazy enough to think we can make it past both Boston AND Milwaukee.

  194. Welcome back to the big leagues, Timo.

    Any word on Monroe? What do we do if he’s down, too?

  195. Upon a little research, I’m happy to report that my dementia has not yet reached its peak. Leyland did, in fact, replace Verlander on a 1-1 count in Game 2 vs. the Yankees. Jamie Walker came in to retire Robinson Cano in the sixth and induced an inning-ending double play. Tigers win. Walker got the W.

    I do not know of the Rodney replacement in Toronto, but based on my limited knowledge of Leyland’s moves, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if he did make a similar move. Especially if he had walked 3894 batters like Mike R. pointed out.

  197. If you don’t like the announcers, mute.Put on some classical music. These guys are a joy to watch. They have won two games scoring a total of four runs. Sweet.

  198. Granderson’s catch last week and Thames this week. These guys are playing their hearts out. GO TIGERS.

  199. Does anyone want to play more badly than Thames right now? How much longer until first pitch?

  200. Does anyone want to play more badly than Thames right now? How much longer until first pitch tomorrow?

  201. OH Man, what a nail-biter again.
    It’s great to see that those tight games fell in favor for the Tigers and not the Twins. Wasn’t so very often in the past.

    The Series is already won and today Bondo vs Baker. (Better don’t write the “S” Word 😀 )

    I can’t believe, that the Tigers have now 3 Wins vs Santana in this Season (the first overall in the second-Half )

    Man, this feels good

  202. Edit. 3 Wins this season when Santana was on the mound is the correct sentence above ( one time his time could get him a no-decision) 😉

  203. To see Marcus make that game saving heroic catch in left, rolling and tumbling, and flipping and rolling some more, and then to come up injured only adds to the legend, but man do I feel bad for him. I loved me some Gnarls Markley.

  204. I am curious, does anyone know how it works when the Tigers pull up a AAA guy, what happens to the AAA team? I assume they must have to pull someone up from AA. Is that the case? And the string of callups has to end somewhere, leaving some team short.

  205. At the end of the chain, a 6-year old t-ball player gets moved up to the 7-year old live pitching league.

    That’s an interesting question; would be interesting to track a string of transactions all the way to the bottom of the food chain.

  206. According to the Mudhens website, Timo Perez has been called up. I can only assume this means Thames is going on the 15-day DL. Perez is not on the 40-man, but I’m pretty sure Sleeth could safely be removed.

  207. The Tigers website confirms Perez in, Thames to DL.

    “The sign says no Perezes. We’re allowed to have one.”

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