The Tigers inked Todd Jones to a 1 year deal. If you’re keeping score at home, that’s 2 Joneses today. I’ll have more tonight. In the meantime here is a post looking at Jones’ 2007 season.
Conference Call Notes
- People are happy. Todd is happy. Dave is happy.
- Jones’ kids are excited because they are friends with the other Tigers’ kids.
- Dombrowski on getting other relievers: number one priority is getting a starting pitcher right now. He’s not forgetting about the bullpen, but feels that with Todd Jones and Fernando Rodney the pen is solid. (He also cited the experience that Zach Miner and Jason Grilli got last year). My take: it depends how much they spend on a starting pitcher as to what they’ll do with the pen.
- Gotta run and will update with other notes later tonight
UPDATE: Flaky internet connection killed any updates last night. I’ll analyze both Jones transactions tonight.
Good!!!
Did other teams sign any other players by that name today?
I’d hate to think we weren’t keeping up with the Joneses.
^ nice š
I’m glad to hear this… good to bring some stability back to the pen and let’s face it, 38 saves isn’t too bad.
I guess it was a case of sticking with the devil you know. In this case The Devil in Mr. Jones.
I agree with the analysis- let him pitch the 9th until he bombs out.
A scorching strikeout pitcher would be nice, but I remember Zumaya in the critical Cleveland series coming into the 8th with a 5-2 lead, getting the first two outs and then 2 quick strikes before walking the guy, the next guy is 0-2 before getting hit and the third guy is 1-2 before smacking it out the ballpark. That really seem to deflate the Tigers.
Jones makes it too interesting, but most of the time he “gets its done”.
The Tigers have until midnight to get deals done for these six players:
Adam Jones LF/CF Seattle Mariners
Andruw Jones CF Atlanta Braves
Brandon Jones LF Atlanta Braves
Chipper Jones 3B Atlanta Braves
Garrett Jones 1B/RF Minnesota Twins
Greg Jones RP Los Angeles Angels
And if Randy Smith were still GM, we’d have Alias Smith and Jones.
Gee. Thrilling.
Underwhelmed by both moves today. Are the Tigers a better team today than they were yesterday?
I believe Joel was working in his 3rd or 4th straight day. And why the hell he was in the game in the 8th anyways, when Jason Grilli had been lights out for a month before then and hadn’t worked in nearly a week is beyond me. Just another outstanding move by Jim Leyland in that game.
We’re not spending the money to get Andruw Jones. Brandon Jones is thought of highly by the Braves and since Andruw likely won’t be back, he’ll be needed in the OF sooner rather then later. Who are we going to trade for Adam Jones who is scheduled to be their everyday corner outfielder? If anyone, it’d be Wladimer Balentien, but even then that’d be questionable to pull off. Everyone complains about the age of the team and then you want Chipper who hasn’t played since 2003 and twice in the last 4 years hasn’t even played 115 games? Garret Jones, are you serious? Nothing like a career minor league OBP of barely over .300 and a nearly 4-to-1 strikeout ratio. But hey, he can hit a ball far. Greg Jones gave up more then a hit per inning in the minors and wasn’t overly dominating at all. How does that improve the team?
With the trades that we made, yes. We’ve upgraded defensively at our most deficient defensive positions (LF, SS, 1B) and with little to no dropoffs/improving offensively at those positions. Now, with Joel out, that is a loss, but relievers/the bullpen is so unpredictable that there was no guarantee that Joel was going to be dominate 2006 version of himself.
Are you serious? The whole Jones post was a joke! Why are you taking it seriously? What are your thoughts on adding Dahntay Jones, Bobby Jones, and James Jones?
I think Mike missed the joke, look at it again. (tho props for knowing who most of those Jones’ are!)
Vince- “The Devil in Mr Jones” is hillarious.
Lineups galore
RHP
1) Jones/Granderson
2) Polanco
3) Sheffield/Guillen
4) Ordonez
5) Guillen/Sheffield
6) Rentaria/Granderson (if not leading off)
7) Jones (if not leading off)
8) Pudge
9) Inge
LHP
1) Inge .924
2) Rentaria .918
3) Guillen .921
4) Ordonez 1.213
5) Thames .927
6) Polanco .813
7) Sheffield .832
8) Pudge .746
9) Granderson .494
check out their OPS
I guess Todd is OK for uno mas/// I expect him to blow up 3-6x yay! hopefully he is solid between those times
What joke?
I have no response for my stupidity in not getting that joke. I was like “what the hell is this dude on?”
I’m just glad we got something useful in exchange for Infante, who looked to be the odd man out anyway. I wish him well for the Cubs, he put in a lot of loyal service here in Detroit. It looks like our left field situation is now set and we won’t have to depend on Timo. Keep him in Toledo again until there is an injury (good chance Maggs will get hurt, he is due).
As for our bullpen, I was really hoping the Zumaya injury would push them to go after Cordero. The plan was for Jones to keep the closer spot warm for half a season or more, and gradually hand it over to Zumaya. But now, what if he doesn’t come back 100%?? I wish we had a better long-term option. I’m fine with Jones for this year, he mostly gets the job done and seems like a pretty cool guy, which helps the team. I’m just worried about the future.
I’m even more worried however by what Dombrowski is saying. It seems whenever someone expresses concerns about the bullpen he mentions Grilli and Miner ??????? That doesn’t console me much. They both have had their moments of effectiveness (if not, they’d never have made it past A-ball). But I’m not comfortable depending on either of them. You can’t compare them to a healthy Zumaya.
I hope they go after dontrelle willis. He would be a good fit.
I think this is probably a good thing, though we probably overpaid him. I’m beginning to understand that it’s a foolish idea to have your best reliever as your closer; I’d rather have a decent closer and a guy that can get out of jams (i.e., a setup man) than rely on someone other than your best reliever to hand the game over to the closer later. Zumaya was key at getting out of jams. Rodney isn’t bad at it either. Jones can keep closing ballgames all he wants. Yeah, people hit a lot off of him, but better to have him pitch the ninth and Rodney any possibly jams before then than the other way around.
But conventional baseball wisdom will never let this happen. A closer is a glorious position, much more so than a middle reliever. Saves are probably the most useless stat in baseball, right next to the “hold.”
We do need another set up sort of guy and hopefully, DD can afford one after finding a starting pitcher. This is an anxious time regarding the SP. It would be nice to have Rogers if he’s healthy and he’s a good veteran presence. But I have to agree with Alan. I would absolutely love to have D Train in Detroit. Probably won’t happen though even though I suggested a couple days ago to offer Omar and Inge + cash for him. I don’t know if we actually have enough trade material to get anybody good. We’ll see.
Dontrelle Willis? Yuck. 5.17 era, 1.59 whip? a 26 year old with over 1000 career innings already? that’s a lot of miles and you can see his strikeout, walk, home run and hit rates have all gotten progressively worse each of the last two years. He’s a below average pitcher and will still cost prospects because he’s young and people remember his last good year in 2005. He did slug 100 points higher than jacque jones last year, though. Can he play LF?
Buster Olney today on Leyland’s roll in player acquisition.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3107826&name=olney_buster
Nothing new I guess, but every time I hear about how much Dombro listens to Leyland when putting the team together, I get an upset stomach.
I’m not an ESPN Insider, but every time the Tigers make a move that makes me scratch my head (Neifi, Mesa, getting Casey) I assume Leyland was pulling hard for the source of the head scratching.
Re: Dontrelle — Say what you want about his pitching last year (no, it wasn’t pretty) but he’s a Grade-A guy. Played his rookie league ball here in Boise (then in the Cubs organization), and was housed by a family I know. One of the nicest, most genuine people anyone here’s ever met, and regularly checks in with and visits folks here in the offseason. If there was one personality I could pick from all of the MLB playerbase to add to the Tigs clubhouse, he would be it (esp since we already have Granderson, who would be right there with Dontrelle at the top of my list).
All that having been said, I’m a little afraid of what might happen in the AL with him…he absolutely KILLS lefties (career .280 SLG against, much lower than even Santana, and even last year lefties got *13* total hits off him — .142 SLG) but righties tend to figure him out. Comerica would probably help him, as would good defense — FLA led the majors in errors.
All in all, it wouldn’t be a *bad* move, but it’d be pricey, I think. Man he’d be great in the clubhouse tho…
Craig Monroe is now a Twin…
Interesting… revenge in ’08? how about for Jones?
Hopefully that means Torii is gone and will quit running down balls in CF against us.
I’m not going to complain about them re-signing Jones. As much as he drives me crazy, w/o Zumaya we definitely need him. Needless to say, we still need to sign a difference maker reliever of some sort. A near repeat of the 07 bullpen minus Zumaya is not gong to cut it. Dombrowski, work your magic!
I like the idea of a healthy Octavio Dotel in Detroit. He’s had some health problems, but that could just make him cheap. I heard the Tigers were targeting him. Could fit nicely in the 7th-8th innings if he’s right. Also has some experience closing if Jones were to get injured.
SP is what we need more then the pen – there are always guys who can come up from the minors and I’m pretty sure Fernando will be similar to ’06 and second half of last year
Plus Byrdak and Seay and Miner we will be good.
David,
Are you saying starting pitching beyond getting Rogers, or just getting him or someone to take his place? In other words, do you see the rotation next year as:
Verlander
Bonderman
Rogers
Robertson
Miller/Bazardo
or
Verlander
Bonderman
Rogers
Robertson
someone else (Silva or Willis?)
Personally, I think we should go for Willis and say goodbye to Kenny. We can get a better pitcher for the money. I don’t care about having a “veteran presence” on the staff; I want a guy that can start 30 games a year and win more than half of them. I think having a few 15 game winners is better for the young guys in the rotation than having a guy that is paid far more than them that goes 3-4 (Rogers), 9-8 (Schilling), or 6-6 (Clemens). If you want an old guy to help coach the young guys, hire a pitching coach. Don’t make the team suffer because you want the kids to feel like they have someone to hold their hand or something. Now, if Kenny won 17 games again, it’d be a different story. But like Schilling, I think Kenny has posted his last dominant season.
Here’s what the rotation should look like next year:
Verlander
Bonderman
Willis
Miller
Robertson
That’s a recipe for dominance.
Does anyone else LOVE that DD basically told Boras to go screw himself if he thinks Detroit it going to bid against iteself over Rogers! By going out and looking for another pitcher DD is saying Rogers either get your agent under control or we will go elsewhere. And after outbidding ourselves with pudge and maggs (dont get me wrong I love them both) its about time we figured it out. And to be honest i would love to have Willis instead of Rogers. Willis still has a ton of potential and while a ton of people are looking for veteran leadership I say get young proven pitchers.
I still like the idea of bringing in Brian Fuentes. He a established reliever and a possible closer type candidate if Jones were to get injuried. Brian helped the Rockies in the 7th and 8th innings in the playoffs and was pretty solid. His ’07 stats are compelling with an 3.08 ERA, with 56Ks in 61.1 innings. His career stats are that different with an3.53 ERA, 398Ks in 359.1 innnings pitched. He would do us a favor and would be great in the backup/setup role.
I’m still very concerned about our rotation. I mean I don’t want Miller in the rotation because he is still I believe a year out from being a major leaguer. We need an established major league pitcher like Rogers and Silva to round out the rotation this year and then bring in Miller next year. Sign Silva to a 4 year year deal worth $50-70 Million. And that will give us a strong rotation til Porcello comes in.
’08 Rotation
1. Bonderman
2. Rogers
3. Verlander
4. Silva
5. Robertson
’09 Rotation
1.Bonderman
2.Verlander
3.Silva
4.Robertson/Miller
5.Miller/Porcello
’10 Rotation
1. Verlander
2. Bonderman
3. Miller
4. Silva
5. Porcello
I think that looks good though the cost of Silva might be too high for his talent but He would look good and be good in the old English D.
As far as what we could offer for Willis I say give them Robertson and Larrish (isnt that the 1st baseman prospect?) and another prospect or thames. Now I dont know if that would interest FLA or not but it would be great for us cause with guillen slottted in at 1st for the next several years we dont need Larrish and thames is expandable because of Rayburn. and yeah I know if we give up Robertson we still have to fill a SP spot, but with Willis instead of Robertson we could look for a 4th or 5th starter instead of a 3rd starter thus saving money on whoever we sign.
Silva isn’t good enough for what he’s asking.
If the Tigers really want a veteran starter – and I can’t figure out why they’d rather have any veteran than a great starter regardless of age – then let’s get Pettitte. He’s a veteran, a lefty, and very good. Pitches a ton of quality innings, which is exactly what you want out of a veteran, and something that Rogers may not be able to provide next year.
Eric,
That is very true and Pettitte would be a steal for a season or two but I’m looking at availability and Andy isn’t on that radar. Why because he has indicated that its Yankees or retirement for him. And while we might be able to get a look from him he will probably command a salary of 20-30 million for two years. And probably with a lot of incentives in there. Most likely he will retire next year and wont look back(unlike his good annoying friend Roger Clemens).
Looking strictly at Availability- Silva and Willis are the only two respectable solid pitchers I would be happy with next season(if the deal for Rogers falls through).
What about Bartolo Colon? He is a veteran who has had 2 bad years in a row because of injuries (in my opinion) but heck he started more games than Rogers did last season and he should be cheap! Plus the last time he pitched a full season he won the Cy Young.
The Marlins want good defensive position players and pitching. They were rated one of the worst teams defensively.
Personally Eric?
I’d like them to go out and resign Rogers
I he is to the pitching staff as Magglio (or Sheffield) was to the lineup if they are right.
Everyone falls in line after them.
Plus I’m still in awe of the playoffs, and have always been a fan of his even in Texas.
I understand what you are saying though and I agree.
Though I don’t want Willis because of three things – first I don’t think he is great, second even if he is good he already has a ton of tread on his tires so to speak, and third (and most important) we would have to give up too much of the farm (and we have already traded away quite a bit young talent the last two seasons).
I’d love to go after a guy like Pettite (though I thought he said it was either NY or retirement)?
If they are really going for it now (2008, 2009) like they say they are we need two solid SP to weather any injuries and fatigue.
I’d also like to see us go after maybe some Pirates (Morris? Gorz? Snell)
As far as relievers I’ll throw these two names out there that might not be too expensive and can be dominant like Zumaya – Kyle Farnsworth, Jon Rauch (tallest player in MLB)
You really have to look at organizations and underrated players – we don’t want to give up a leg and and arm for Dontrell,
Morris although has stunk lately has a great FB and Curve and can locate and is experienced (which is a huge asset for pitchers IMO)
or one of their younger guys because they probably won’t ask as much – which is one reason why they are never good =(
Plus Farnsworth’s stock is low now and even though he rejected us in ’06, he was downright dominant in 2005 with us.
Rauch’s walk rate is great (only 21 in 87.3 IP) plus quite a few Ks
would add depth – which again would help protect us against injuries
Not good guys,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071113/SPORTS02/71113075/1050/rss15
According to the Detroit Free Press Boras wants $10 mil. for Rogers. That is insane price for someone coming off of a 11 start 3-4 season with injuries plaguing him. Schilling actually I think deserves his money with that gave him $8 mil. and 2 mil more for incentives and weight control. To give Rogers $10 mil. to start is just crazy, it looks like Rogers will be leaving us soon.
I like Kenny and wish him well. But this doesn’t sit well with me. Its one thing to want fair market value, to get a comparable salary. Its another to try to get overpaid RIGHT AFTER you got paid millions to sit on the DL for most of the year.
….and people wonder why Boras is disliked.
I wanted Kenny back, and still do, but only slightly now, and definitely not at this price.
Yeah, for 10M, have fun elsewhere, Kenny.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071113&content_id=2299975&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp
Link says that the Tigers have already made 2 offers to Kenny and both were declined. If that’s true, I hope they don’t make a third. Time to move on. If he changes his mind, great, if not, enjoy Texas.
Willis is starting to look a little better now.
Maybe Mr. Rogers should find a new neighborhood.
It’s not like Scott Boras is throwing that out there without Kenny’s consent. Kenny EMPLOYS Scott Boras. He employs him to get him paid. And that’s not a figure that Boras came up with that Kenny didn’t approve of.
People should lay off of Boras. He’s doing what his clients employ him to do. When do the players get ripped for being greedy rather then the figurehead representing them?
And Kenny at $10 million is a no-go for me.
Though I agree with your assessment Mike, Boras does in fact play a huge role in convincing the players to go for more money instead of where they are comfortable.
For instance Boras and the Braves over Furcal. Furcal promised the Braves that he would allow the Braves to counter any offer by any team back in ’03. The braves weren’t even notified that Furcal signed with th Dodgers. Boras went ahead and signed with Furcal. Now To be frank I believe that Boras convinced Furcal to not talk with the Braves after the Dodgers made the offer. Boras is brilliant but he is the cause for many teams that had excellent chemistry to be broken up by convincing those FA to sign elsewhere and test the free agency market.
Not to mention the annoucement of K-ROD’s opting out of his contract during game 4 of the World Series. That was rude and Boras should have never let that out before the World Series ended.
Kenny was going to sign here until Boras convinced him to try the market. He is coniving but also brilliant. But the baseball world would be so much better without him in it.
In any case, Rogers will not be a Tiger in ’08. And thats a 85% probability. Good Luck to Rogers in ’08 and after. I hope he comes back to be a coach for us after he retires. He’s a great mentor. So long Kenny.
Though I don’t like double posting MLB hot stove;
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071113&content_id=2299388&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp
Tigers have been in contact with Octavio Dotel, This would be an awesome signing but If he is injury plagued it will be Kenny all over again. But if he can prove that he is healthier then he would be a great addition. Thoughts?
quote:
People should lay off of Boras. Heās doing what his clients employ him to do. When do the players get ripped for being greedy rather then the figurehead representing them?
unquote
I don’t think anyone is under the impression that Boras doesn’t get paid. The fact that someone is paying him to do questionable things is irrelevant. Not to mention, there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest he pressures clients to go over the top.
Besides, for every Boras detractor, there are 5 people sprinting to his defense. He should have more people ripping on him.
And players get ripped all the time for being greedy.
quote:
Tigers have been in contact with Octavio Dotel, This would be an awesome signing but If he is injury plagued it will be Kenny all over again. But if he can prove that he is healthier then he would be a great addition. Thoughts?
unquote
I really like the idea of a healthy Dotel in the Tiger bullpen. Yes, he’s an injury risk. But I’m thinking his past injuries could make him cheap.
I agree Greg,
I think him being a healthy bullpen member for the Tigers this year would help stabilize a bullpen hurting from a Zumayaless bullpen. He brings a nice fastball and curve and a good attitude in the clubhouse. And that he has past injuries will just make him look even more cheaper. Tigers have a nack for picking up players other teams wont touch because of injuries.
I still like Brian Fuentes over Dotel but still Dotel will come a lot cheaper then Fuentes. Only time will tell what Dombrowski AND Leyland want.
So Boras shouldn’t get any slack simply because his clients are easily persuaded by money? That’s about all I took from that. Again, his job is to get the most money for his client and he does that. I’m sure the clients aren’t tied up and held at gun point to sign anything and they can fire him at any moment. But they don’t. They hire him to get them as much money as possible, period.
quote:
How is it irrelevant? The Players he represents are his employers and he reflects their desires and demands. If a player is easily persuaded, again, by the thought of more money, how does that make Boras a bad guy.
unquote
How is it in any way shape or form, relevant? In my opinion, an unethical act doesn’t all of a sudden become ethical simply because you get paid to do it. So as long as you get paid to do something, its ethical? Think about that. Extortion is very profitable, does that mean its honorable?
That’s not my model of ethics.
That’s why people usually do unethical things in the first place, for personal gain.
Think about this exchange:
quote:
And I NEVER see anyone defend Boras ā
unquote:
We’ve had radically different experiences. As I can’t remember the last time I saw him get ripped in a message board/blog/forum, without multiple people running to his defense.
quote:
If a player is easily persuaded, again, by the thought of more money, how does that make Boras a bad guy.
unquote:
Nothing wrong with that, never said there was. Although it really is too general a statement. There are different ways to make money, some are honorable, some are…..questionable. Boras seems to truly enjoy the latter. Just a handful of examples have already been mentioned.
I don’t see Willis coming here. His last year worries me, and that doesn’t even take into account the .3 to .5 you add to his ERA has he goes from the NL to the AL. And I don’t think the Tigers have the pieces to get him anyways. Although as someone mentioned, Larish is probably one of their more movable commodities.