2008 Season, Game Post

Game 12: Tigers at White Sox

93 Comments

PREGAME: Now that the first pesky win is out of the way, as is the second win, can we get a series win? Am I being greedy?

The Tigers send out Kenny Rogers who was fairly efficient his first time out against the Royals, but who labored against the Red Sox. Javier Vazquez will be throwing for the Sox. He notched a quality start his last time out against the Twins, but allowed 9 baserunners over 5 innings in his season debut against the Indians.

DET @ CHW, Sunday, April 13, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 2:05

POSTGAME: At least they didn’t hit into any double plays today.

I’ll have more later tonight.

93 thoughts on “Game 12: Tigers at White Sox”

  2. I’m not getting all the Leyland hate so early in the season. Yes he’s put together questionable lineups and made puzzling decisions regarding use of the bully, but no more so than at any time over the last two seasons. And it’s not like he has a lot of confident choices to make out of the pen.

    This is a player performance issue. You could argue that he could be doing something different to inspire the team in some way but who in their right mind thought that this lineup with this payroll could ever produce so poorly over an 11 game stretch?

    Brandon Inge, a guy the organization doesn’t want, and Clete Thomas, a guy most of us didn’t know even existed are the only two players showing any bit of desire on the field. It’s well past time for the big boys with the big paychecks to step up.

    Does Leyland really need to get in their faces and remind them that the season has started? Hasn’t Dombrowski and Ilitch given these guys all the incentive they need? What exactly is JL supposed to do?

  3. God I hope Vazquez struggles, as he did with Cleveland. I’m tired of seeing pitchers in this league have their stuff working against the Tigers and then serving up batting practice to our competition.

    But then again, the Tigers have to start making these pitchers work for these outs. There’s been nothing more frustrating than seeing the potential of high pressure situations getting our opponent pitchers in trouble and then having such trouble being snubbed out by bad at-bats & double plays. As the Yankees showed us last year, high powered offenses wear-down effective pitching by being patient, drawing walks and running up the pitch count– all with the effect of getting to the relieving core sooner.

    IMO, yesterdays at bat with Polanco was the antithesis of that objective. Floyd was having control problems but was unhitable. Poly failed to recognize that when swinging on the first pitch into a double play with two on, one out. I think that was a pivotal play that epitomizes the offensive struggles of this team.

  4. We have a rather battered, bleak lineup today (that somehow Raburn fails to make), so a win today can only be considered a bonus.

  5. Chris:

    Spot on with the Polly analysis. Besides driving up the count, if Polly would have been patient there, worked the count to 3-2 or even drew a walk, then you have an entirely different game/pitcher/situation. You have runners on first and second and Floyd on the brink of becoming unhinged. He obviously pitches differently with runners on first and second to Sheffield from the way he does with two outs bases empty. If Polly does his job there, Sheff approaches Floyd the same way — which is one thing Sheff has done well this year. You force Floyd to throw the pitch you can hit — and that’s what breaks games open.

    T-bone:

    Sometimes wonder if that’s something more Leyland could do (since you asked). I know at the beginning of the game you have a game plan against this pitcher or against that pitcher… but sometimes you have to see what is and/or what is not working as the game unfolds — after the first time thru the lineup, after an inning or two, or whenever. If I were Leyland, I would have Polly work the count there and take the first pitch. If the team is clicking, I wouldn’t necessarily micro-manage as such — you don’t need to –but the team isn’t clicking. Whatever approach the players are taking against Floyd obviously isn’t working. That’s when you need a leader to actually step up and manage a team. You need an orchestrator who recognizes the guy on the mound is on (or whatever the given situation). Some of the veterans adjust to situations of the game, as professionals, but in this case you need to employ a coherent approach among all the players to break the pitchers stride — that approach can only come from the guy whose paid to instill coherence/chemistry among ALL the players: Leyland.

    Then again, I’ve argued a thousand times before that this is not Leyland’s strong point, so we’re really just pissin’ in the wind embarking upon this line of discussion.

    The Polly at-bat is a potential turning point situation, one which could have blew the game open. Swinging there at the first pitch is almost sacreligious.

    For those of you who do not subscribe to that line of thinking, just look directly at Verlander’s preformance to site an example. He was pitching a gem into the eight inning. Things quickly unraveled and all of the sudden 1 run becomes 7 runs.

  6. Could somebody list the lineup if you know it? I’m thinking about putting a bill on the Tigers. I have a real good feeling about today. I don’t know why, but I feel like we break out of the funk today. Let’s get pumped.

  7. Thomas, CF
    Renteria, SS
    Sheffield, DH
    Ordonez, RF
    Cabrera, 3B
    Jones, LF
    Thames, 1B
    Inge, C
    Santiago, 2B

  8. T Smith: I think the another “turning point” — or key at-bat, rather — came in the very first inning. Thomas was on third with one out, but Sheffield failed to hit the ball the other way or deep in the outfield.

    If it’s a 1-1 game in the eighth inning, Verlander would have been pulled at the very first sign of fatigue or trouble. Which was obviously the case after hitting Cabrera. Then it’s probably a 1-1 game going into the ninth, not 7-0.

  9. I like that line-up. Should be pretty good defensively and offers some freshness, whatever that means.

  10. Agree with ya, Ken. With the way they’ve been hitting, I’m almost glad to see Pudge and Polanco out.

  14. Forget yesterday’s game already. The bullpen is still a work in progress and so is the offense. Just have to wait it out and be patient for things to start clicking.

  20. I wish we could get some timely hits like Konerko’s now and again. We would have popped that ball up somewhere in foul territory no doubt.

  22. I am starting to wonder if the Tigers come into any game with a game plan – hitting or pitching. At some point you have to hold the staff accountable.

  23. another error by the left side of the infield…i’m starting to believe that we should never turn to the national league for players.

  25. This is brutal. I’ve been pretty glass half full so far in this slump, but this is starting to feel Bad News Bears here.

  26. Awesome….a grand slam, which means, another loss for this team. I don’t even know why I am wasting time watching this team lose. They arent even losing competitive games, it is truly looking like 2003….Pathetic….

  28. Miguel Cabrera SUCKS… We need to drop him in the batting order…… I change that. We need to dump this bag of NOTHING.

  29. 15 straight innings without scoring, and counting. Last in the majors in runs scored, last in slugging.

    It can only go up!

  30. Can you imagine if the team with the 2nd highest payroll ends up with the worst record in the league? Would that be the biggest “fall on your face” move in sports history?

  33. I think this is going to be a pretty typical outing for Kenny guys. His injuries and age have caught up to him. I’m sure he’ll must a few wins when he’s on this year, but I’d be shocked if he were to win 10 games.

    I’m still advocating a trade to get some arms if we want to be competitive this year.

  34. Ken from Cincinatti: Goodness, are we the New York Knicks? That is embarassing.

  37. Kevin, with that infield fly blunder, my attitude is starting to change from shocked and appalled to deranged and comical. I mean this is just goofy bad baseball. Just dunderheaded, lame, Ken’s softball team style baseball.

  38. Yeah, I’m not a big believer in bad luck. Though I do believe in poor preparation and bad play.

    As I said the other day, we are in grave danger of falling out of playoff contention in April.

  39. This game has completely turned my day around. I was set on being productive, healthy, and happy. Now I’ve said F it, am on my way to pick up a Tuscan Meats Papa John’s pizza, and will play video games and online poker in my dark cave of misery.

  41. All I’ve been hearing since the season started is “This team is going to hit” or “When this team starts hitting”.

    What if they don’t hit? Is anyone thinking about that possibility? Because they have shown me zero signs that the hitting is close. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

  42. Zach Miner has been nothing short of awful, he almost makes Grilli look like Goose Gossage.

  43. Why don’t we send the entire bullpen to Erie and bring theirs up, it couldn’t be much worse. No slight intended, Erie.

  45. Man, something really, really needs to be done about this pitching. Do DD or JL have a weekly talk show on one of the local sports stations? I’d love to listen to them.

  46. I think I’m going to throw up. I completely miss the last game of the Sox series and yesterdays game so that I can get a break and I come back thinking maybe just maybe they would get a series win……..(almost barfs)……WTH. This is miserable…………OMG OMG!!!!! now I will barf…………….11-0…………..cant believe this team…..its not even fair to say this is the 2003 Tigers, they are WORSE!!!!!! 2 Grand Slammys in one day. Thats not unheard of with really bad teams, and yes we are a bad team right now. I not off the wagon but theres only so much I can take. Im starting to think about getting MLB.tv so I can start watching my Braves again. This is just sooo pathetic.

    Like I said if they are truly like this in July, we HAVE to and NEED to unload and rebuild under Granderson, JV, and Cabrera.

  49. Lets see if Brandon Inge remembers how to pitch.

    It couldn’t get any worse and we might find that he can’t hit like Babe Ruth, but could pitch like him

    anyone opposed to seeing what he has got? besides a gun

  51. Seriously, This team has no chemistry whatsoever. I made a comment to fellow Tiger fan in December that not resigning Sean Casey was a bad omen. You don’t gain anything by removing such a positive individual from the clubhouse. The Tigers already had a solid offense and infield. As nice as Cabrerra looks on paper the $$$ would have been better spent on Pitching. ie ….Santana.

    Even if the offense was clicking, They aren’t going to score 10 a game.

  52. anyone opposed to seeing what he’s got?

    The way things are going he’d just hurt his arm. And the Tigers would lose one of the few guys who’s actually having good at-bats this year.

  53. Wow. Raburn needs to be taking over at 3rd so Cabrera can rest his legs, not subbing for the uninjured Ordonez.

  54. I thought Kenny pitched pretty good and we still had a chance even at 5-0. So much for that!. I’ve never trusted Miner and we just aren’t hitting.

  55. Definitely agree, why is Cabrera still in the game when he’s been gimping around all season?

  56. Cabrera looks alright to me. The one play his leg just slipped on the grass and he fell into the umpire. But he has completely lost his confidence at the plate.

  57. Yes, this is awful. I saw that Sean Casey omen comment and I was thinking about how this team does miss chemistry.

    Jones should not be starting it should be Raburn or Thomas.

    Renteria should not be there it should have been Santiago or Infante.

    High-priced Cabrera is not close to worth that contract.

    Ans the one position we really needed help from last year, the bullpen, we left the same.

    I am keeping the glass half full, but I hope that these Tigers realize how much they are embarassing not just Tigers fans but themselves.

    They are pathetic right now, all that talent and not playing anywhere near it. Just a total embarassment to themselves.

  59. It’s not like they don’t know it, Jojo. They just don’t seem to be able to overcome it right now.

    Clay Rapada, God help us.

  61. I have been a Tiger fan for 35 years and the start of this year is pathetic. It looks like a 4th shutout is going to happen. So very, very sad and depressing. I have tix for April 22, but may sell em. I just don’t see any positives.

  63. What is Sparky doing these days? This is sooooo frustrating. I love my Tigers, but changes are needed. Dombrowski better be worried now. I totally agree with the previous posts about no chemistry on this club. I miss Casey! He is a class act

  66. Isn’t it sad when you have two minor league players i.e. Thomas and Raburn, doing a lot of the work when the all stars like Cabrera, and Maggs can’t do squat. I agree we need to bring up our AAA or AA players and completely switch them around, couldn’t hurt worse. And Miner is going to be DFA and bring in Galaraga. And hey Clay Rapada didnt look to bad. I still say keep him in there for lefty specialist, and let Seay pitch a inning or more instead of him being a lefty specialist. Seay has a much better time pitching to rightys then Clay. Anyways an disappointing loss. And a pathetic season this GRAND lineup and team is having.

  67. The Tigers have been shutout in one third of their games this year (4 out of 12) including all 3 games Kenny Rogers started. Additionally, they have already been shut out more than all of last year (4 to 3)

  68. this is my 1st time to log on this season so much hope and optimism couldn’t wait for season to start now I am so mystfied by what I see I don’t know what to think I feel bad for all true tiger fans but I can’t even begin to know how bad Mr. Illitch must feel after all the money he has spent and knowing how much he really loves the city, it’s fans,and the detroit tiger team it is a shame to see what he is getting in return an allstar caliber baseball team so far it’s no more than a frick’in joke

  69. Chemistry doesn’t win ballgames, coming prepared wins ballgames. Right now they can’t pitch, hit, field or run. Being all lovey-dovey in the dugout isn’t going to fix that.

    This train wreck falls on the manager’s shoulders, whose responsibility it is to see that the players show up ready to play. The Marlboro Man needs to step it up or be shown the door.

  70. Im wondering if this keeps up that Leyland will leave mid season like he did for Colorado. And I wonder if he will do the same thing and leave the money behind because of the crap job hes doing with some of these calls.

  71. “So what exactly were they doing during spring training?”

    I looked over the stats for spring training, and I could not find anything telling for their multiple player batting slumps. Cabrera hit about 300, Polanco was hitting pretty well and Ordonez was very ’07.

    I hope much of the problem is a combination of hitters pressing and a fluke of dominating pitching performances. When Javier Vazquez pitched against the Indians in the first week, he pretty much stank. But today he had his groove. He would have beaten Cleveland today as well.

  73. Fire Leyland NOW! one of highest payrolls in baseball and they act like they dont want to be there. Bring in someone who can light a fire under their @$#@ !

  74. Charlie–that’s exactly what I think. Sometimes a pitcher shines against one team and stinks against another, but it tends to even out. Even after only 12 games, you’d think we’d catch at least one pitcher on a bad day, except no pitcher is going to have a bad day against the Tigers, not the way they’re playing now. I do believe in good luck/bad luck to some extent, but not 12 games of it. This is just bad baseball.

    BTW, today is the 3rd time the White Sox have hit 2 grand slams in one game. The last time was in 1996 against, yes, our Detroit Tigers.

  75. We are not even looking or even acting like a team. I think the players are pissed at the management for the pre-season stuff and are playing like little high school kids. We need to start benching high paid player or send them down to toledo for a couple of days. maybe then we can see a true baseball team. cudos to Inge, thomas and rapada for trying to carry the team. sad to say; two are from the minors.

  76. I hope Jimmy is gone before midnight tonite. Should have gotten rid of him after the World Series fiasco. Detroit has suffered enough humiliation over the years with it’s sports teams. He’s got to go. To top this whole thing off is that we don’t have a player/leader in the clubhouse because of Leyland’s “I’m running this ship approach”.

  77. You want to kick Leyland out the door?

    It’s a long season. I agree something has to happen, but that isn’t the answer, not yet anyway.

  78. Good lord, I don’t even know what to say that hasn’t already been said… this is amazing.

    I’m just glad I took the weekend off and went down to Louisville for Thunder – airshow and fireworks… at least I got to watch some INTENDED explosions.

    (P.S. Everyone should check it out sometime… it’s just ridiculously awesome)

  79. I agree that it is too early to boot JL. But he clearly should be criticized for their apparent lack of preparation. And if anything, he should be criticized for doing NOTHING to address this slump. But it is understandable that he did not want to push the panic button by making drastic changes.

    But I think now is the time to be reactionary. The first thing is to have a team meeting to address their approach to the plate. Players such as Cabrera, Polanco, Ordonez & Sheffield need to be reminded when it is time to be aggressive and when it is time to grind-out their at bats. One of the most paradoxical issues so far is how Inge has greatly improved his approach to the plate from his horrible 2007 season while the rest of the team has regressed Inge’s old habits.

    And maybe it is time to switch-up the batting order as well– at least for a little while. I would even be as bold as to swap Inge and Cabrera in the order. I know it sounds crazy, and it is something no manager would do, but Cabrera is clearly pressing as he tries to break out of his slump while also trying to be the second cleanup hitter. If JL bats him ninth, then maybe he’ll relax a bit while trying to regain his swing.

  80. I’m beyond devastated. I can’t even watch anymore. I’m going on Tuesday but oh my. There is just no “team” anymore.

  82. Just a quick look at the season stats: Tigers are last in runs, last in slugging (by far), 28th in team batting average (last in the AL) and last in team ERA.

    It’s a wonder thay’ve managed two wins.

  83. For those wanting Leyland to blow up, you got your wish. He went off today.

    For those wanting Leyland fired, get real. He’s a big part of the reason that these players we were so excited to see in action all of two weeks ago have agreed to long term contracts without having to over pay. I think Leyland has done a horrible job this season but to fire him would be foolish.

  84. Topic: Saving the season
    This is what I would do and I’ll preface that I didn’t see this coming so I’m not acting like a genius here. Also, I would make these moves to help the team NOW and not take into account the long term contracts Guillen and Cabrera just signed and whatever position promises were made.

    1.Move Cabrera to first base. I’m now convinced he can’t play third consistently.
    2.Have Inge play third and bat him ninth. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but the team needs some defensive athleticism.
    3. Have Guillen and Sheffield split DH. They each can play in the field once or twice a week. Rest them the other days. (Believe me, I know that makes them the most expensive 450 ab guys in the history of baseball, but we’re trying to win games here.
    4. Have Raburn play center.
    5. Fine Rogers whatever you have to so he gets it through his head that running 13 miles, even on the day after your start, is just idiotic and not acceptable.
    6. The bullpen. Uh, pass! As Scotty would say to Captain Kirk, ‘Cap’n i’m not a miracle worker.

  85. While certainly not insignificant, I’m no so worried about the hole the Tigers have dug for themselves. Five-and-a-half games back isn’t the end of the world with 150 games to play — However, I am worried about how they’re playing. If they don’t snap out of, they will lose 100 games, plain and simple. The exact same pattern happened to the White Sox last year, and they simply couldn’t break free of it. At some point, when you are playing poorly, many games back, and after you’re no longer contending, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your play mirrors your place in the standings. The Tigers have that look after 12 games. Someone needs to expalin to them that they can turn this whole thing around by May 1 if they simply show up and play the game.

    Can they win the next 12 games in a row? Unlikely, but this team is certainly capable of going 10-2 over a 12 game stretch, if only they showed up and played to their ability. The sad thing is, they don’t even necessarily need to overacheive to go 10-2 over a twelve game stretch. They just need to come to the park and play.

  87. “The exact same pattern happened to the White Sox last year, and they simply couldn’t break free of it. ”

    Couldn’t agree more

  88. Bilfer, why would it be foolish? Do we really have to take into consideration how the players feel? They’re big boys and they fully understand that someone has to pay for their lousy play. Mickey Mouse could have managed them in Oct. 2006, August 2007 and the first two weeks this year and gotten the same result. And by the way, Mickey would never have allowed that 2006 celebration after beating the Yankees. Geez, it was only the first playoff series. Act like you’ve been there before, even if you haven’t, Mickey would have told them.

  89. Fellas, fellas, fellas…. I hear you and feel your pain. There’s not much I can argue with, except this:

    Miguel Cabrera is a hall-of-famer. A few of you need to get this into your heads. Write it on your walls and tattoo it on your chest if you have to so you don’t forget. He is a hall-of-famer, and some of you are talking jibberish.

    The career numbers he has put up are otherworldly. At 24, he has proven himself an MVP candidate at least twice. He’s the real deal. He’s one of the 3-4 best hitters in the game. He’s up there with Pujols and A-Rod and Ordonez. If he stays healthy, he will go into baseball’s pantheon of greats. His number’s aren’t good… they aren’t great… they’re “Oh my god.”

    He’s sore, he’s cold and he hasn’t fit in yet. I generally don’t buy the cold-weather excuse for vets, but for a young guy who has NEVER played in a cold-weather city before, 14 games in the cold are goign to have an effect. So is losing: He’s pressing and feeling pressure to carry this team. I’m sure he’s having flashbacks to the 2007 Marlins, and that’s why Sheff has been talking to him, calming him down. He’s young. But of all of the problems on the Detroit Tigers, Miguel Cabrera is not one to worry about. He’s the best hitter on this team, and that includes Ordonez. Leyland likes vets, and that explains why Magglio’s still hitting 4th — I think it’s a good move. But as a hitter, Cabrera is Ordonez with Hank Aaron power.

    So, I understand all the concerns and worries. But please, please PLEASE understand that the Tigers’ future is playing third base RIGHT NOW (though, he probably should be playing left field, ahem). As a hitter, he has all the talent in the world.

    I can’t fault any other criticisms I’ve heard… from losing Casey to mysterious lineup choices, to undisciplined hitting, yes, there are plenty of problems on this team. But Cabrera is NOT “overpaid,” at least by the current economics of baseball.

  90. Less than 100 comments on a game thread for (I believe) the first time this season.

    Tiger fans apathy is setting in. I hope the team turns things around and our apathy is short-lived.

    I don’t mind the losing as much as the apparent lack of effort by the bulk of the team.

  91. Not apathy – just speechlessness. I still watch the games and read the posts, but I feel like it’s all been said.

  92. Plus, what with this being a family-friendly site, a lot of my thoughts can’t be here.

Comments are closed.