2008 Season, Game Post

Game 16: Tigers at Indians

103 Comments

The Natural Lightning BoltPREGAME: The Tigers will try to keep rolling along as they send Justin Verlander out to do battle with Fausto Carmona.

Verlander is coming off his best start of the season, though you wouldn’t know it by looking at his final line. He had allowed just 1 run through the first 7 innings against the White Sox on Saturady before things fell apart for him in the 8th. Verlander has struggled against the Indians historically. Last year he allowed 7 runs in 3 of his 5 starts against them, including a 4 homer effort in September.

Carmona’s stats just don’t add up for the Tribe this year. He has 17 walks and only 8 strikeouts in 16 innings so far. Eight of those walks came in his last start against the A’s. Yet his ERA is 2.20. Part of the reason is he’s only allowed 1 extra base hit. Another part of the explanation is his power sinker induces double play balls and opponents have hit into 7 in his 3 games.

DET @ CLE, Thursday, April 17, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 7:05

POSTGAME: I really have very little to say about this one. I missed the first couple innings while coaching my son’s team. Saw the blow-up in the middle innings, and that’s about it. Verlander seemed to be hitting 94 mph a little more and it came at the expense of his control. I wonder if it was a situation like Todd Jones in spring training where he was over throwing because of all the velocity concerns. Or perhaps he just didn’t have it again.

And the offense generated some chances but couldn’t capitalize. These games are a lot less worrisome after a 3 game win streak.

103 thoughts on “Game 16: Tigers at Indians”

  1. No Pudge, no Polanco:

    Thomas, LF
    Santiago, 2B
    Sheffield, DH
    Ordonez, RF
    Cabrera, 3B
    Guillen, 1B
    Renteria, SS
    Jones, LF
    Inge, C

  3. Just a question, why do we have our two worst hitters in the lineup hitting 1st and 2nd?

    Go Tigers

  4. I’m not sure which is worse: Pudge leading off or Santiago second.

    Both are just inexplicable.

  5. At this point, I don’t think you can call Clete Thomas one of our two worst hitters.

  10. Oh man. After seeing that slow-mo replay, it’s obvoius that Grady was out by a foot.

  12. safe or out, Inge definitely has a hose.

    looks like Verlander is doing his best C.C. impression.

  14. The way Justin is pitching, I’m thinking he’s going to hit Peralta on a 1-2 count.

  17. It took 21 pitches and he looked terrible, but somehow he got out of that inning with no runs allowed.

  22. Is Renteria a fairly slow runner or was that not a deeply hit double for Brandon? Just trying to figure out how he didn’t score on that one.

  23. Ugh! I’m guessing he thought it was out of the park — but jeez, run it out. That’s a missed run. It went off the very top of the left field wall, Andrew.

  26. Every pitcher we have should have taken notes on Galarraga’s performance last night.

    The guy just threw strikes and had success. Imagine that?

  28. Ugh. JV looks awful. Cannot throw strikes.

    What is it about Casey Blake? God how I hate him (almost as much as Crede…)

  30. It’s not that simple, Andrew. Galarraga had his best stuff last night against a struggling team. If JV abandoned his game plan and started firing fastballs towards the middle of the plate simply to “throw strikes”, he’d get rocked even worse than he is now.

    Having said that, he clearly doesn’t have the stuff to implement his game plan tonight, so he needs to have a seat sooner than later.

  33. What is it with the regular starters this season? They just can’t get going, just like last year. I don’t understand it…

  34. Verlander very well may be their ace in the future, but not yet. They do not have a true ace on this team, someone who gives them a chance to win everytime they take the mound.

  35. I’m just saying – it would be nice for our “Ace” to pitch like one sometime this year. When your best outing of the year by a starting pitcher has about 4 games of big league experience under his belt – you’ve gotta question the spring training preparation our guys had.

    JV shouldn’t be pitching this horribly.

    It’s like we’re watching Bizarro Tigers this year or something. Up is down and left is right and the Tigers and Indians are fighting to stay out of last place in the division.

    Who would have thunk it?

  36. Exactly…none of the starters look good this year….

    Verlander has lost his velocity.

    Robertson can’t get past the 3rd.

    Rogers lost his composure.

    Bonderman is patchy.

    It just doesn’t make sense…

  37. Awful inning at the plate, too. Verlander had like 2 minutes to sit down.

    He’s toast.

  38. Pre-game preperation, coaching, cold weather? Who knows what is going on with this staff. Lets hope they get it figured out. Doesn’t look like a night that they score double digits again.

  39. There’s something from spring training about Verlander I can’t recall, but I seem to remember a story about it somewhere. Initially, he wasn’t trying to push off the rubber with his right foot as much. But when he started trying to, he began his spring training struggles. If he’s not comfortable strongly pushing off the rubber, then that would certainly explain the lack of velocity.

  41. Brian, I do not recall that, but if it is true then Chuck Hernandez needs to be held accountable.

  42. Verlander has to battle and eat up some innings, because it doesn’t get better if we bring in Miner. We’re only down 3-0.

    Verlander at 75% is still better than anyone in our pen at 100%

  43. Yeah, I know Mark. I’m just dumbfounded at our starting pitching so far this year. It sure is strange that they are all suffering in some way at the same time.

    Just smacks of a lack of prep in spring training don’t you think?

  45. Is this lineup waiting for the 8th inning to do something? Other than the 2nd when they had runners in scoring position with 2 outs they sure look toothless so far.

    Another quick outing and a short rest for Verlander (like Mark noted after the last Tigers at bat).

  46. Wow, 85 pitches through 4. Will JV have enough to get through the 5th? He’s been topping out strength-wise around 90-95 pitches so far.

  47. Clearly JV doesn’t have his best tonight, and I have no idea if he’s at 75% or 25%. But going to the bullpen now does several things

    1) removes your most talented pitcher from the game, thereby giving him no shot to turn it around (the last two innings have been better)

    2) effectively gives up this game down only 3-0 unless the offense can come up with 5-6 runs at least because counting on our bullpen to throw 4 scoreless innings is a pipedream

    3) uses guys today that would otherwise be counted in against Toronto

    Chances are we lose this game since JV will tire and Leyland will leave him out there too long, but at least he gave us a shot to come back, ate up some innings, and turned it over to a bullpen that probably only has to pitch 2 innings

  49. Mark, do you think JV can make it through the 7th? I’m not a betting man, but I have my doubts about him getting through the 5th.

  53. Leyland is playing with fire leaving JV out there. Perhaps we could turn it over to our bullpen and actually give up fewer runs than Verlander looks like he might give up.

    Just sayin’.

  56. No, Andrew you’re right JV won’t make it through the 7th, and even getting through the 6th might be a stretch. But I still believe leaving him in was the right move, we’re only down by 3 still. Bullpen couldn’t have done any better.

    I totally agree with you that Leyland is playing with fire leaving JV in, and I fully believe he’ll do so (see my earlier comment). To compound the problem, Verlander will leave with guys on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, and our new pitcher almost assuredly allow them to score.

  58. If anyone needs some good news, at least Halladay is pitching tonight for the Jays, so we’ll miss him up North.

  59. Something is not right with Verlander. He has hit so many batters already this year, walked a ton, and has hardly any strike outs. I know they are trying to turn him into a pitcher, but when will they end this experiment? I don’t think it is working out too well.

  60. Mike, that is good news. Didn’t we catch Halladay just about every series we played with the Jays last year?

    At least it seems like we did.

  64. Jeez…you send the runner when the outfielder has the ball while the runner is on third base? Odd call.

  69. miner brought some matches …i was really hoping he wasn’t gonna suck tonight.. so much for wishful thinking

  72. is there really a point to let miner go on…even if he settles down he’s gonna suck the next time he’s out

  73. Good thing Miner has an option left, because I’d really hate to lose him on waivers on his way back down to Toledo…{rolling eyes}

  77. We only need one mop up, long innings reliever in there and thats Grilli, Miner is built to be a starter and should be put down to AAA to become a starter………he’s really sucking as a long reliever not to mention any other role he’s been given this year.

  78. “Miner sucksā€¦. Way worse than Grilliā€¦”

    Never thought I’d see something like that on this board.

  82. Seay it aint so, why is are arguably most effective guy in the pen pitching in a 10-1 game with a four-game set in Toronto on the horizon?

  83. He’s hardly pitched. Neither has Bautista, whom I expect to get an inning tonight too.

  86. 5-11 with our best starter looking like garbage all year. JV needs to turn it around. 4 starts no wins.

  87. That goes for all the starters. None of them, besides Galarraga, have looked all that great. It all comes down to pitching and that is one area where this team is still slumping.

  88. Lots to worry about with Verlander. His velocity is down and JL had to keep him out for 100+ again. I just hope he’s not injured.

  89. Besides Galarraga the best pitched game was the one Willis got hurt in and the pen pitched most of the game.

  90. I’m not overly concerned about Verlander. He was pretty good opening day and real good until Leyland left him out to dry against the Sox. He definitely has room to improve, but I don’t think it’s that concerning.

    Of greater importance is our starters’ inabaility to throw quality strikes and avoid running up pitch counts on a consistent basis (that includes JV).

  91. Well, that’s it. The skipper just gave an interview while chewing his dinner. Didn’t we just get an apology from him a week or so ago about doing the very same thing? Kinda makes me wonder.

  92. I have always been one of Miner’s biggest supporters, but man that kid is really struggling. He may need some minor league practice. We can come back from 5-1, but not from 10-1.

  93. I think the Tigers absolutely cannot use Miner as a mop-up man anymore. Perhaps they need to find a replacement and send him to Toledo to get conditioned to be a spot starter. He has become worthless for anything else for this organization.

  94. there is a ton to worry about with our pitching. we are going to score a ton of turns eventually, but our staff has gone from AL best to AL worst in 2 years.

    Bonderman and Robertson are mediocre. Rogers is OK. Verlander is struggling, Willis is hurt and our bullpen is a gas can. Not a recipe for success.

  96. I was listening to talk radio the other day and they were rattling off some of the nicknames for the Tigers bullpen.

    Propane Grilli
    Miner Leaguer
    And of course, The Rollercoaster.

    At the time I thought that was a bit harsh for Miner, but he has not been very good at all this year and after last night I think he could use some time at AAA.

  98. Well, there’s lots to talk about…

    I’m asking Billfer to start discussion topics a couple times a week. He could get the discussion rolling with a paragraph or so, and then throw it to us. Good to have something to chew on in the a.m. before we get ramped up for the day’s game.

    For example, this might be a good time to start a thread on predicting the Tigers’ bullpen makeup on May 1.

    Any chance Jordan Tata becomes a useful piece of the puzzle by then? Cruceta?

  99. P.S.: I’m extremely worried about Verlander.

    I’m also getting close to a “no confidence” vote in Chuck Hernandez. I know he can’t go out there and throw strikes for them, but these guys don’t look ready to pitch.

  100. I have had my questions about aour coaching at third base. I rarely have seen so many miscues; sending guys when we shouldn’t, not sending them when we should. What ever happened to taking out the catcher or the finesse of the slide.

    Also, why does every play seem so close at 1st. Even with slow runners. Renteria seem very slow in getting rid of the ball.

  101. West Coast I have been having the same thought with respect to Renteria and the lack of snap on the throws to first. Thought maybe it was my imagination. Mentioned it to the friend with me at the game on Tuesday, in fact.

  102. Renteria’s arm is brutal. If you notice he basically just varies the arc to the speed of the runner, which is fine, but he absolutely does not have a Reyes gun in reserve, and you can forget about any sort of play being made in the hole. This team needs to start holding the run totals under 5 on a regular basis or it’s gonna be a mediocre summer, the non-postseason graveyards are full of teams that had a terrific offense but not much pitching or D.

  103. “the non-postseason graveyards are full of teams that had a terrific offense but not much pitching or D.”

    see: Rangers, Texas, ca. 1992-2005

Comments are closed.