PREGAME: It’s the rubber game against the Angels after two pretty well contested battles. For the Tigers tonight is noteworthy because it will be the first time that the Tigers have their full projected lineup together. It will also be Carlos Guillen’s first start since his Mariners days at third base.
On the mound it will be Justin Verlander and Jered Weaver. Verlander reclaimed some of his missing velocity his last time out after tweaking his arm angle. He also earned his first quality start going 6 innings allowing one run.
Weaver has struggled with consistency – or a lack thereof. He’s allowed 10 hits in each of his last two outings. The time before that he allowed 5 runs on 4 hits and 4 walks. And the time before that he pitched 7 innings of 3 hit shut out ball. The Tigers have a limited, but productive history against Weaver.
LAA @ DET, Sunday, April 27, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com
Game Time 8:05
POSTGAME: Well that kind of sucked. Justin Verlander looked like the Verlander of old through the first 3 innings. The first run came in the 4th on a poorly played ball by Ordonez in which Verlander should have been out of the inning. And the run that scored in the 5th came on a single, a weird balk/rushed-delivery-thingy, and two fly outs. But oh man, that 6th inning…
A walk and a single and a bobble by Guillen put runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. Verlander quickly got ahead of Torii Hunter 1-2 who had chased a curve ball down and away. After another curve ball which Hunter fouled off it seemed that Verlander had him set up for the elevated fastball for a much needed K. Instead he went back to the curve which Hunter grounded down the line, out of the reach of a pulled in Guillen scoring two more. Hardly a rocket, but why couldn’t Verlander put a free swinger like Hunter away? Why go with 3 straight curve balls?
And then the intentional walk was followed by an unintentional walk, and a ground ball single and the game was out of reach. Verlander was hardly “rocked” in this game. But in the end it added up to a horrible night as he was undone by the 3 walks in the 6th.
As for his velocity, it looked good on the ESPN gun with him at 95-96 on the fastball, but pitch f/x had him 3 mph slower. I don’t know where the truth is.
As for the offense, they were doing a good job laying off of borderline pitches and picked up two walks in each of the 3rd and 4th innings. But a double play, a caught stealing, and a pick off made sure that Weaver didn’t have to work too hard at all.
I guess the bright spot for the night was Pudge Rodriguez gunning down two baserunners with perfect throws to second.
Can’t wait for tonight’s game, hope we’re not all disappointed. If we pull this one off, I’ll be convinced the ship is somewhat righted (but still worried about some of our starters).
Let’s go Tigers!!!
Oh, I’m definately convinced that the “ship” has been righted. The 9-4 team over the last 13 is the one we expected. I’m perfectly willing to dismiss the 2-10 start as an aberration.
That said, I have been worried about Verlander. Another solid start would sure help me relax!!!
Anyone know our record in Sunday night games?
Well, besides this year. Like over the last few seasons.
Oh, God, I’m already sick of listening to Joe Morgan.
Not sure what’s worse, listening to Joe Morgan or watching th pistons tonight
Justin Verlander is my Tiger!
He looked like the Verlander of old in that inning. It’s only one inning, but he had great control and good velocity too. Yay!
I was wary of Verlander coming into the game, but that was a great start. Good velocity and control of the fastball. I even had a flashback of Jon Miller emphatically saying “The Curveball!” in the ’06 ALDS.
That was a beauty of a curveball!
Verlander looking good so far
This is the first game I have seen with Cabrera at first. On that pick-off attempt, I was impressed. He looks very natural over there.
Joe I’m with you on Cabrera. He looks so much more comfortable over there.
I love that Morgan thinks the K-Zone is more accurate than a FREAKING MLB UMPIRE…I’m sorry I just really hate this guy
Weaver getting squeezed. But if it’s a small strike zone for both teams I like the Tigers better to wait it out.
That high fastball is messing with them
Am I the only one here who doesn’t mind Joe Morgan? Also, umpires aren’t infallible.
Well, it’s been almost 10 minutes Brian and no ones responded to your question. I don’t hate him, but he tends to repeat himself over and over again.
I don’t mind Morgan either. You have to put yourself in the frame of mind that they are playing to a national audience.
More Joe Morgan wisdom.
Oh, man. We better wake up!
Good idea Jim, I’m going for a smoke too.
The ESPN gun is about 3 mph faster than what pitch f/x is recording. Wonder where the truth is?
Give me Rod Allen over Morgan any day, but I still don’t think Joe deserves the ripping he gets.
Good thing Maggs can do things like win a batting title, because he will never win a gold glove out there.
Give me an out and Sheff hit one outta there.
Joe –
He won’t win a gold glove, but he’s at least an average fielder. But yeah, that was a bad play.
Billfer, I agree with you on Maggs. Average. Tigers seem to be missing a lot of hittable pitches tonight.
Jared Weaver will not no-hit us the first time we have the full lineup out there.
*jinx,jinx,jinx*
We don’t have a hit yet.
wow, that worked fast.
Make that we don’t have a run yet. Whew, a pitching duel.
That pitch sure did look inside on TV. But not to worry, we’ll get to Weaver soon.
That pitch looked golden to me Kevin.
If Joe Morgan knows that Weaver is throwing the curve on 3-2, then so should the Tigers.
In the words of Bob Ueker, JUUUSSSSTTTT A BIT OUTSIDE
Weaver is dealing…
Is there a provision in our boys’ contracts that they aren’t allowed to HIT THE FREAKIN’ BALL when on ESPN??? Cripes…
Kevin, I wish I shared your optimism. But it looks like another instance of our guys making the other team’s pitcher look extra good. Sheesh. Yeah, I’m crabby š
OK, that didn’t help either… Do we really have to suffer Chewbacca, er Vlad, getting to 2nd, too?
While I’m grumpy, I might as well vent (and I don’t mean have a beer). Can we just lose JJ and give Inge left field?!?
These guys are nickel and diming us to death. That’s Angels baseball. They do it well.
Guillen looks shaky at 3rd already and Verlander is out of gas.
Well, if they have to bring Inge back out, where are they gonna put Carlos?
I really don’t mind giving up four by this stage of the game. What I do mind is scoring ZERO on the day our “intended” lineup debuts, on national tv no less. Can we at least get this blacked out in Cleveland? I can feel the gloating from across the lake already… (although the Yankees did a nice job of pitching the daylights out of the Tribe today, CC’s own great start notwithstanding)
OK, six I DO mind…
Well, that was fun. Good game guys.
It is humiliating.
What’s up with all of the rope necklaces? Just b/c your girlfriend bought it for you while she was drunk in Cancun during spring break doesn’t mean you have to actually wear it.
I’m gonna make one from my mop and wear it as a rally icon.
Verlander is awful……. This team has no ace……. Very sad
Kathy, do you mean if Carlos comes out of the game in favor of Inge tonight? I guess he’d be on the bench. Although I’d rather have him go to left field and let JJ sit; he’s trying on all kinds of new positions lately anyway. š
Ok, rally time! Next batter—–smack a ball square in Weaver’s face and let’s attack their bullpen!! Worst we can do is make them all look like demigods as well. š
Hey, ‘Family Guy’ is on Cartoon Network! Looks like the Gumbel brothers are giving it to a thief on ‘Gumbel to Gumbel’ like the Angels gave it to 9234585 Justin Verlander (Mr. E.R.A. 54352186.32).
OMG Kevin thanks for the much needed laugh. I am beginning to think we’re going to spend the year in last place. But at least I will have my mop string necklace!!
Our ACE – Galarraga
I’ll be in the car…
Sheffield blows
Looking like the last place team that we are tonight, unfortunately.
Sheffield really does seem like a liability right now. I don’t have the same feeling as I did last year that he’s going to come out of it eventually.
I’m glad that Jim Leyland came to the conclusion that a 6-0 game is the time to finally take out your starting pitcher. I thought he’d wait until it was 8-0 or 10-0.
It’s a popup or a strikeout almost every time for Sheff. He has to be hurt.
Can I ask a question here: What the heck is the significance of Sheffield – a 39 year-old DH – compared to the fact that our ace has an E.R.A. that’s higher than Woody Harrelson on Friday night in Amsterdam?
Father Time has probably caught up with first-ballot Hall of Famer Sheffield. Okay.
Meanwhile, the “young stud” who’s supposed to be our slump-stopper is striking nobody out, walking a ton, and getting outright humiliated virtually every start.
Which is the bigger concern?
If he isn’t hurt, someone’s going to hurt him. š But seriously, the boys really do look last-place-ish tonight. I know it doesn’t really matter, but could we just once look good on ESPN? It’s about the only HD channel Comcast doesn’t compress the heck out of lately, and I’m really not enjoying seeing all that beauti-ful HD wasted on such lousy baseball.
both
If Carlos makes too many errors, Dombrowski will have a fit; that’s what I mean. Really, this probably wasn’t the night to have Carlos start his new position. They could have showcased Inge making spectacular plays. Oh well, this is all gonna take a while to work out. I do hope we can put some runs up on the board.
I agree re: Verlander. As I said at the top of the thread, the starting pitching worries me. A lot.
Bye-bye Weaver!! Hello…really good bullpen. Oh.
What other team has a DH hitting 3rd batting under .200. I agree on the pitching, it has been bad. I’m just tired of watching Sheff. Right now he has no significance.
Thank you Pudge! OK guys, please don’t pull the rug out from under us now!!
Weaver was unbelievable – other than two fly outs and Miggys line single, everything else was on the ground.
Did you guys see the inherited runners stat on Speier?
Rope necklace is working. More next inning.
Yeah, like that.. Did I mention I don’t care for JJ?
Sheff retires, goes on tour as a motivational speaker. Inge everyday 3B, Guillen DH. When Maggs’s knees are bothering him, he DHs and Thames plays RF. He looked good out there this past Thursday.
Who’s got Leyland’s cell number?
OK, top of the order, let’s do it Kitties!
That ump takes it like Carlos’ foot!
Sigh. The Indians were nice enough to lose today and we aren’t even taking advantage of it. Sadly, the Sox were not so accommodating.
hell, maybe they can rally in the 9th inning since Sheffield won’t bat until 9th spot this inning.
That’s pretty funny Mike
First two games of this series were good. Tigers played well even when they lost the first one. Not so tonight. Ugh. Well, it happens…
Road Trip to NY after a much needed day off. We shall see what team shows up Tuesday.
The committement to Sheffield in the No. 3 hole is killing the order, especially if Polanco slumps. (Admittedly, not rocket science to say that, why can’t Leyland though.)
This team has the personality of a clump of dirt. They’re plastic, going through the motions. They score a gazillion runs against Texas and then cannot solve surfer boy. I love how they go back to the dugout and slide their helmet back into it’s cubbyhole. I guess if someone bounced one off the floor in frustration, it might upset Jimmy.
Yes, Ron, that’s why the Tigers lost today — a lack of juvenile displays of frustration. Ugh.
Verlander Sucks….. It’s time to dump this flash in the pan “ace”.
Something tells me this might be a slight overreaction. Although it probably would help them to achieve the 120 losses you predicted.
I think Sheff may be done. His mind is still there, but the body is just not responding. 3 cortizone shots in 1 week is not good. Let’s hope he retires or goes on the 60-day DL. Is Kenny Lofton Available?? How about Barry Bonds?? That would be a story!
-Sam
i’m probably starting to come across as an Inge fan-boy, but i can’t help it since i keep looking more and more at the defense as the main trouble area.
when i read a lot of the tigers blogs it seems like everyone wants to weigh Inge’s lack of offense higher than his excellent defense.
i know that there are tons of stat based studies on the whole offense vs defense thing, but do they take into account how a botched play on D can extend innings (i know the counter is that hitting well will also extent innings, so maybe i’m just venting)? take ordonez last night, he was one of the guys contributing to the offense last night, but his missed catch leads to a score instead of ending the inning.
i won’t totally throw guillen under the bus on his error (i think he mishandled it at first, but i also thought he was interfered with) however, that combined with an “inge-able” ball that got by him that same inning (i think)…you’re looking at a 4 run inning that likely would have been avoided or lessened with inge at 3rd.
so my question is why is it that people look at inge and see a lack of offense instead of what i see as 3-4 runs saved last night. isn’t a run saved as good as a run scored? and its not even like inge hasn’t contributed offensively this season either…he’s 4th on the team in RBI (14) and was one of the only guys hitting early. if nothing else, why can’t we swap Jacque “will not finish the season with an outfield assist (or steal)” Jones with Inge?
i’m sorry, this whole thing is driving me crazy! our starters aren’t this bad (ok some of them are), but they would look this bad if we were playing solid D and maybe its just because i keep looking for reasons to plug Inge back at 3rd, but i’m seeing lots of balls hit though the 3rd base area.
on the plus side, Miggy looks pretty good at 1st (even if he’s on pace for DH’ing @ 27).
Chris… it’s getting hard to tell whether you’re genuinely overreacting or acting out a parody of such behavior.
Andre wrote:
i know that there are tons of stat based studies on the whole offense vs defense thing, but do they take into account how a botched play on D can extend innings……..i wonāt totally throw guillen under the bus on his error (i think he mishandled it at first, but i also thought he was interfered with) however, that combined with an āinge-ableā ball that got by him that same inning (i think)ā¦youāre looking at a 4 run inning that likely would have been avoided or lessened with inge at 3rd.
so my question is why is it that people look at inge and see a lack of offense instead of what i see as 3-4 runs saved last night. isnāt a run saved as good as a run scored?………iām sorry, this whole thing is driving me crazy! our starters arenāt this bad (ok some of them are), but they would look this bad if we were playing solid D and maybe its just because i keep looking for reasons to plug Inge back at 3rd, but iām seeing lots of balls hit though the 3rd base area.
Unquote
Thanks Andre for pointing this out. I agree 100%. It seems as though a week doesn’t go by without Guillen’s defense singlehandedly losing a game for the Tigers, or turning a close game into a blowout.
Last night he was the Angels secret weapon. If memory serves me correctly he killed 3 rallies with 2 on, 2 K’s and a GIDP.
When Guillen finally moves to DH, what a beautiful day that will be.
quote:
Joe –
He wonāt win a gold glove, but heās at least an average fielder. But yeah, that was a bad play.
unquote
I was at the game last night and had a pretty good view of this one(if you’re referring to the ball that bounced off of the wall that he didn’t get to).
Granted, it wasn’t graceful, and a solid OF would have fielded it, but it wasn’t a routine play as the wall was coming into play and you could tell that Maggs couldn’t get a good ‘feel’ for where the wall was.
Honestly, I’m impressed that so many OF’s are able to do this and make it look easy, but if you’ve played the OF and have to ‘ignore’ a wall while approaching it, and totally focus on tracking a ball in play…..it might be the most difficult thing a player does IMHO, at least it was for me….except playing catcher, which is the toughest IMO.
I think Maggs deserves a pass on that one.
greg –
yeah, i hope i’m not coming off as hating on guillen or maggs in general (as far as maggs goes thats the first “mistake” i’ve seen him make in a while). i love guillen’s bat and there isn’t too much to complain about when it comes to maggs either…although i wish he would take less swings at first pitches (to be fair though i’m obsessed with wanting the Tigers to up the opposition pitch counts).
i’ll admit that a lot of this complaining is probably closer to nit-picking, but when you start off the way the Tigers did and when they can’t seem to address weaknesses in the basics (defense) its really hard not to start second-guessing the leadership.
somebody please tell me what J Jones brings to the team? now tell me that there isn’t somebody 6 million cheaper that could replace him. i dare you. this is where i wonder. seriously i can’t say historically i’ve been a huge fan of thames, but he has really good power numbers and he may actually be capable of throwing somebody out.
you won’t ever hear me suggest that Leyland pack his bags, i’ve never been a bigger fan of a manager (possible exception Scotty Bowman…but obv that a little different). i keep hoping though that there are things going on behind the scenes (there most likely are) that explain these decisions. but i reserve the right to whine until i hear them or we top the division.
Billfer,
Regarding Verlander’s fastball velocity last night, I have it from the source (Josh Kalk) that Comerica is the second worst setup in the majors when it comes to gameday. You can look at his pitch f/x page and go to Verlander’s data for this year and basically see two different plots – one for Comerica and one for everywhere else. It’s pretty embarassing.
Eric
I don’t know if CoPa’s correlates to pitch f/x, ESPN, or neither, but fwiw, the scoredboard had his fastball clocking in between 93-97 most of the night. With it hitting 96-97 a number of times.
Andre, Many of the stats based analyses would agree with you about the value of offense/defense. When the Tigers first acquired Cabrera, Billfer and I both crunched the offensive/defensive numbers and estimated that replacing Inge with Cabrera was only worth a couple of victories when factoring the the difference in defense (about 35 runs). Thus, I’m happy that Cabrera has been moved to first where his tremendous offensive value will probably not be offset by his defense.
However, I don’t think moving Guillen to third really solves anything. I think the Tigers would be a better team with Inge at third base and Guillen at DH and Sheffield on the DL. Even if Sheffield reaches his PECOTA projection (.274/.372/.461), I’d still rather have Inge (.245/.317/.408) at third.
I’m with Lee on this. Inge is brutal at the plate, but his elite level defense makes him an adequate player at 3rd base and I’ve already said that I would like Sheffield to go on the 60 day DL. He’s not worth anything to us in the 3 hole popping out on the infield. If he can get healthy after 2 months of and come back in June or even July and give us some production down the stretch, I’m all for it. Otherwise, I think it’s time to bite the bullet and move on without Sheffield with him going on the 60 day DL anyways. I know he’s a proud man and wants to show why he got the money but this is 3 straight seasons an injury has caused him to miss significant time or just straight up ruined his production.
Inge at 3rd, Guillen to DH (rotating with Magglio and Miggy Cabrera) with Miggy at 1st is ideal for me.
Lee and Mike –
I totally agree with y’all on Sheff. I keep thinking back to Champ in Anchorman, “Take it easy, [Gary]. Why don’t you sit this next one out.” That goes for Polanco too (maybe a 15 day DL). We need both of these guys healthy. If they can’t hit as well hurt as the guys that can fill in for a stretch they need to sit out so that they can heal faster.