2008 Season, Game Post

Game 7: Tigers at Red Sox

221 Comments

PREGAME: We’ll see if it is the home whites that were the problem for the Tigers as they embark on their first road trip of the season. They’re taking on the Red Sox who have already played in 3 countries and on 2 continents this season.

In addition to a 6 game losing streak the Tigers also will be dealing with a ring ceremony and a lot of hoopla. Edgar Renteria will bat lead off as Jim Leyland returns to the opening day lineup. Renteria and Boston don’t really mix so this should be interesting.

On the mound today will be Kenny Rogers and Daisuke Matsuzaka. Rogers was solid his last time out allowing just 2 runs in 6 innings but was out dueled by Brian Bannister. Matsuzaka is making his 3rd start of the year and has a 2.31 ERA with 15 K’s in 11.2 innings.

Game Time 2:05

DET @ BOS, Tuesday, April 8, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

POSTGAME: Go ahead. Panic. Do whatever you have to do. I feel sick. I have nothing encouraging to say. Just more of the same.

221 thoughts on “Game 7: Tigers at Red Sox”

  2. where’s the game????? i can’t find it on tv?????? poker is on fsn? help!!!!!

  6. This is the first game i’ve seen since opening day. I have a good feeling. Go Tigers

  9. I’m reaching deep into my bag of slump-breaking behavior changes today. Something’s gotta work…

  10. i’m fricken livid….cable compnay claims its fsn’s fault. i have no baseball game.

  12. Hi gang. I’m supposed to be working. Tried to get Gameday on my computer but can’t update whatever player is necessary to get it so I am getting by with the Tigers website representing baserunners like little monopoly houses on the bases – uh, oh, there are houses on all the bases and a picture of Big Papi. Oh dear god I don’t know if I can stand this. WTF, Tigers????

  16. Dead Rabbit – I wouldn’t worry. The Tigers aren’t looking much better than their previous 6 losses. Rogers will be lucky to pitch 5 innings the way he is running up the counts.

  17. Gameday is requiring a new Flash upgrade to watch.

    That last inning could have been a whole lot worse…

  18. One thing that won’t appear on gamecast is that the infamous hawk is buzzing the Fenway crowd. TV is capturing it pretty well.

  19. Tomorrow we play a real live night game on the road. Maybe that will lead to a win if we can’t get one today, because I can’t think of anything else to change.

  20. I’ve got the game here in Lansing on FSN, don’t know what’s up with other people. You’re not missing much, the Gambler is really laboring and is lucky it’s only 1-0 right now. Not a very promising start.

  21. Thank you Tiff, that gives me more information, except the information about the Tigers third inning is not good –

  22. I just got back to my desk but that seemed like an awfully fast half-inning for our batters after Kenny just threw about 100 pitches in the 2nd inning alone.

  28. I am just despondent. And the worst part is that I am the designated Tiger fan in my office, the decorations, etc. If one more person walks in and says “what’s wrong with YOUR team” I am going to fling myself out the window.

  29. I have dice k on my fant squad. been looking forward to this game. took a sick day from work, and fsn doesn’t play the game. i feel like throwing my tv through the window.

  30. cib, same here. Everyone stops by my desk because I have the radio on, but I already want to turn it off.

  31. I can empathize, cib. I am the designated fan around here too, and people keep stopping by and asking, “what’s up with your team?”. It’s infuriating. Fortunately, the number of White Sox fans is relatively scarce, they are mostly Cub fans around my office, who have no grounds on which to criticize any other baseball team.

  32. Note to Sheff:

    Repeat:

    Please no GIDP

    EDIT: Last person to disregard my words so blatantly was my wife

  35. Unbelievable. ANOTHER GIDP. This is simply beyond comprehension. There HAS to be a reset button on this game somewhere.

    T Smith, your best efforts are for naught with this team right now.

  39. Welcome to todays game featuring the league leading Detroit Doubleplays!

  40. Naturally, I’m the Tiger fan in my office too, being in Colorado. It’s brutal that the Rockies won a pennant. I mean for goodness sake, it’s the Rockies. Of course I hear it from everyone.

  42. oh I know it.

    “What’s wrong with your Tigers?”

    When they’re winning, they’re everyone’s Tigers. When they’re losing…

    My response: they losing!

  43. What is really insane is that I’m in a no care mood and mode. If the Tigers don’t care to try and win games and stop swing at pitches so because…..why should I care and be annoyed because this so called “All-Star” lineup cant hit. ZIf they don’t care or can’t hit the ball why should I care? Dice-K is good but come on 1 hit please……..Tigers if Kenny cant hold it at 2 runs and the offense still doesnt score runs, we will be 0-7 and more probably 0-9.

  45. So…I had that this game was the game where Polanco made his error. It was apparently so real that when Rod and Mario were like “That’s probably an error on Polanco,” my first thought was, “Another one? Whoa.”

    In other dreaming news, Carlos Guillen went 6 for 6 with home runs and singles and…GASP. RBIs.

    So I’m taking Carlos Guillen as my Tiger today.

  47. I’m also the designated Tigers fan of my office in San Francisco. At least the Giants suck so I don’t hear much from them.

  48. Yikes. All Carlos has to do is put his right foot on the bag and stretch for the ball. That wasn’t a bad throw.

  49. Grilli warming up….hello 0-7.

    If he goes in, force him to finish the game to save the rest of the arms.

  50. we’re going to need about 9 runs to even stay in the game today… grilli’s warming up that golden arm of his

  51. OMG this is a freakin nightmare This is season is just starting and we will have to watch this crap all season long. My god someone just tell the tigers to forfeit the season if this is how they are going to play defense and play offense………..god we blow!

  53. I retract my “Guillen looks good at first.” statement

    right in the basepath, although many throws from Cabrera have sucked, he should have his foot on the bag and the rest of his body stretched on the infield grass towards Kenny, I wonder what Sean Casey is thought in the opposing dugout

  54. Probably thinking thank god I’m off a team that sucks and on a team that actually can win ballgames, get to the WS, and win WS. LOL!

  57. I’m gonna throw out a bit of optimism here:

    As far as the Red Sox opener: It’s eerily similar to the way the Tigers opened against KC — Tigers had plenty of early opportunities — were cruizing against Meche, but only managed 3 runs — KC only managed one hit against Verlander, and then we all know what happened in that game in the late innings. This is the exact inverse of that game.

    It’s amazing the score isn’t 7-0 right now. We need to take advantage — now.

  58. I just looked back at the Tigers last 4 games (including today so far). In those games, when the Tigers have had an inning with the possibility of hitting into a double play (man on first, or 1st and 2nd, or bases loaded and less than 2 outs) they have successfully hit into that double play 10 out of the last 15 times. That’s right. And it’s 8 out of the last 9 times. I’m not kidding.

    A worse start I cannot imagine.

  60. hmmmm, if i had money Id wager but hey, Ill go with a

    4th place finish, 62-100 or worse.

    score 650 and let opposing offenses score 900+ runs.

  61. Lead-off walk! Now if the correlation holds, Guillen should homer and the score should be 3-2

  62. This new team sucks. That first called error on Opening Day, I said, Inge to Casey would have been a sure out.
    Apparently the Superstar Purchase Plan only works in NY.
    Well hey, we’ve got a baserunner. Good times!
    As you all can tell I am morphing from despondent to bitter.

  63. I know there’s not supposed to be any crying in baseball, but what the Tigers are doing simply cannot be called “playing” baseball. This makes me want to cry, puke, and hit something all at the same time.

    I think I’ll take a week off (like the Tigers have done) from listening/watching the games. I’ll only check the box scores (with trepidation) each morning until next week.

  67. Let’s unload some payroll and trade Cabrera for Shelton straight up

  69. Jeff M.:
    Just how low are you buying? If you wait a few days, it will probably be even lower.

  71. ok how close was that to at least being off the wall? it was to the wall on gamecast.

  73. Just how low are you buying? If you wait a few days, it will probably be even lower.

    Nah, this gang has already priced in a sweep by Boston (and probably another in Chicago). Steve’s already talking 90 losses.

    It’s just a matter of getting someone to put their money where their mouth is at this point. Lots of talk, but even the biggest drama kings here know it’s not going to be that bad.

  75. Grilli’s in the pen. With all the ring ceremony hoopla, I guess Bosox skipped batting practice today?

  78. Jason,

    I am aware there were 2 down when Inge flied out. I am simply grasping at any positive thing I can at this point.

  79. Ok, ok Jeff you got me here. I’ll give you the best I can come up with we will be ChiSox of 2007 and lose close to 90 probably more along the lines of 81 and 81 break .500. But thats the best I can see this team doing because there is no unity or cohesion at all. Now they may bust out but not before the end of April. Now they may win a few here and there but they wont bust out totally until May and maybe not even then if they don’t start doing something.

  81. in 1981 the season was reset due to the strike. Every team was given a chance to fix their season and make the playoffs by simply winning the 2nd half division title. In fact, the Kansas City Royals won the 2nd half AL West title despite having an overall record below .500 Can we do that?

  84. Someone from my office just offered to buy the rest of my season package for 20 bucks. I am going to cry now.

  88. Woot woot! Grilli to the rescue!

    ok, i just threw up a little bit in my mouth for saying that…

  89. Grilli’s new fan club. Jiar Jurrjens has Jurrjens Surgeons. Grilli’s got “Its getting Grilli’d Time” or “Its Grilli’n Time” or “Its Grilli’s Drillin time”

    Others?

  90. Grilli has been effective on the road the past season and a half. It looks like he did the job here. Frankly, it doesn’t matter given we have 2 hits.

    Amazingly, both the Angels and the Twins have hit into more double plays this year than the Tigers (not counting today’s games).

  91. The DPs are inevitable for a hard hitting, free swinging team. The only player that can handle the bat is Polanco, and he’s in a slump. (Not to say that other guys can’t, but they are paid to hit extra bases.) Pudge used to be pretty good at moving players over b/c he swings at wild a** pitches and usually goes other way, but he’s diminished in his old age and is largely a hindrance on this team.

  93. I’ll give you the best I can come up with we will be ChiSox of 2007 and lose close to 90 probably more along the lines of 81 and 81 break .500.

    I’ll take that one too. I’ll even give ya 4:3 odds. I’ll take 85 wins for even money.

    Someone from my office just offered to buy the rest of my season package for 20 bucks. I am going to cry now.

    I’ll give ya 40.

  95. A pair of bleeders, is this going to spark the breakout? Or is Maggs just going to GIDP?

  97. Biggest AB of the season to date right here. Maggs up, 2 on with 1 out.

    For the love of GAWD, please don’t swing at the first pitch or hit into a DP.

  98. Where are you, Jeff? I’m not bailing so I’ll be using one of my tickets for each game, probably trading the other for a beer. Thanks for the laugh…

  102. Dice-K is killing my Tigers but doing wonders for my fantasy team. Go Dice K lol j/k but still he is doing a lot better his sophomore season than his rookie season.

  103. Hmmm….something must be wrong with my stats update, it says that grilli didn’t allow his inherited runners to score today….for those watching the game, what REALLY happened?

  105. what happened, the skies opened up over Fenway and frogs rained down over the field, hence Grilli getting out of the inning unscathed.

  110. This is just sad. What a meezly double would have done to the morale of this team.

  111. Ok, Gettin’ better. That was almost a rally. No double play. No inherited base runners scoring….I think we’re snapping out of it!

  113. oof. killer. can’t get the hit(s) they need yet again. really needed at least a run there.

    Did Guillen at least hit the ball hard? did it take a good play by Crisp? Give me some kind of silver lining…

  114. Tony thats waaaay to optimistic for this team right now. True it was as close to a rally we have had TODAY but we had that same thing opening day and we screwed up just like today. Until we start plating RISP I will not be optimistic for this team.

  116. I have to be optimistic. I have a wife and 2 young kids to take care of. If my brain lets in what it’s really thinking I will be kicked out of the house.

    Wow…only 3 runs given up to day!

  117. If they lose today, Tigers are 41-47 since last season’s midpoint. Perhaps we have slightly over-estimated the team’s greatness.

  122. I think we should have paid 141 million on some Pitching. Iam frustrated.

  123. Didn’t you do this last year, too, Stephen? You always pick the worst possible starting point. It’s just pointless. What’s their record since the beginning of last season? At least that arbitrary timeline makes sense.

  124. oh man. Grilli vs. Drew. This is not going to end well. Leyland needs to bring in Seay if he wants to keep this game managable.

  125. Someone needs to help carlos at first. What happened to his footwork? He wasn’t that bad before if I remember correctly.

  126. Where are you, Jeff? I’m not bailing so I’ll be using one of my tickets for each game, probably trading the other for a beer.

    Troy. Shoot me an email throwaway80 at hotmail.

    I quit. I wish I could get a refund on my MLB.tv subscription.

    I’ll buy the account off you for half price.

  129. I blame this whole 0-7 start — and what looks to be the beginning of a lost season — entirely on Inge. If he hadn’t killed so many rallies last year, coupled with the rest of the lineup having career years, Dombrowski et. al wouldn’t have felt so compelled to unload our entire farm system for Cabrera, and the Tigers may have gone after some quality pitching instead.

    (Just kidding everyone — just kidding! I realize Billfer hasn’t installed a sacarasm filter yet — but I anticipate the onslaught of vitriol even before I can hit the submit comment)

  130. because, boombotti, putting Seay in would make sense. And since Leyland has no clearly defined roles for anyone in this bullpen other than Jones, he’s simply going to “wing it”.

    Jason Grilli is not a major league capable pitcher. Sure would be nice if we had a couple young guys to run out there in his place, except they are all in Florida now.

  131. cib, i’ll buy a couple of day game tix off you! It’s still better than being in the office. tiffanybd at gmail.

  132. In any other rational, parallel universe, that would be the end of Jason Grilli’s career in Detroit.

    I really, really wanna hear from the Grilli defenders. What could possibly justify sticking with him at this juncture?

    (there’s a Bush joke in there, but I don’t even NEED to get into that right now)

  134. I did do it last year and the point still stands: this team has little heart and is vastly overrated.

    Ok, let’s start with last season. This makes them 88-81 since opening day 2007.

  135. Here’s a fun stat:

    We have scored a grand total of 15 runs in 7 games (assuming we are shut out today). At that pace, it will take us a grand total of 467 games to score 1,000 runs. Or nearly 2 full seasons.

    Hey, when people talked about this being a 1,000-run lineup, they never said over what kind of time frame.

    Anybody else have some grotesque stats they want to add?

  137. One last arbitrary point: Going back to 8/1/06, The Tigers are 111-113. That seems like a fair sample set.

  138. Bobby:

    I’ll defend Grilli. The runs allowed apparently will not matter. We lose by 3 or by 5, what’s the difference?

  139. But…but… you’ve intentionally left out their most successful period of play while including both of their epic slumps!

  140. I’m not sure how useful it is to look at a record over multiple seasons – maybe if there’s no turnover in the roster, but not otherwise. I guess your point is that it’s a reflection of ownership and the GM?

  141. Did anyone really expect them to win today? I don’t think they’ll win tomorrow either. They just don’t care.

    I’d like to get Laird and Benoit from Texas, I wonder if they’d take Guillen for them.

  142. You’re right, that’s what you would do if you were conducting a tracking poll in politics. You discard the oldest data. If you want to run the numbers of the last 50, the last 100, the last 150, or the last 200 games it’s going to be ugly. The further we get away from the first half of 2006 the less relevant that great start becomes.

  143. Bobby,

    Totally agree regarding your defense of Grilli. However, Leyland insists on using him in high leverage situations where it does matter. THAT is indefensible.

    Gilli is ripped on this board (and rightly so). And while Leyland gets some heat for using him, it’s not nearly to the extent that Grilli gets ripped, which seems like a pass for Leyland. We can only speculate on the conversations between Leyland and Dombrowski regarding Grilli’s place on the 40-man (much less the team), but ultimately it is DD’s decision, and in my opinion, he largely gets a pass too, when compared to Grilli.

    Grilli can’t help it that he sucks, but Leyland and DD can totally help it that they keep using him in games.

    If there were only some way we could get Grilli to throw in a live game AGAINST the Tigers. Talk about irresistable force vs. immovable object….

  144. The distressing thing about it is the flippant vibe coming from the team. ‘So what, we’re 0-7’ The season isn’t over yet. But they blinked and they’re 0-7, in 5 more games, they could easily be 0-12(unless they change some things, that’s exactly what will happen) and their season will be over at that point unless someone lights a fire under them. Except for Inge and a couple flashes here and there, I don’t sense/see any sense of urgency, I do see lots of lethargy…..

    Reminds me a little of the White Sox last year.

  145. The team at the start of the 2006 season was basically the same team as that of 2007 — you’re discarding relevant portions of data just because they don’t conform to your existing thesis. I don’t see the point.

  148. Greg – great point. I’ve been meaning to bring this up. When do we(you) panic? If we only win 2 or less out of our first 10 I’m going to hit the panic button. A slump is one thing, but playoff teams simply don’t go 2-8 (or worse) in a 10 game set, especially with 6 of those games at home, vs. sub .500 competition (expected).

  149. and by “the same team as that of 2007”, I meant “the same team as that at the end of 2006”

  150. 5-0 loss and a 0-7 start awesome just awesome at this rate we will make the playoffs in 2012 lol. Its so bad that I’m laughing at them I mean what else can we do……9th inning 2 out hit with the last out being a K.

  151. No no, Greg, I totally agree… I don’t think you can blame a guy that is trying his hardest to do his job. I think he’s simply proven that he’s not capable of being a major league pitcher — that’s no slam, for Pete’s sake, after all -how many are there?? — and the blame for his situation HAS to be laid squarely on the shoulders of both DD and Leyland.

    Nevertheless, I just have a difficult time imagining he **really** has a future here past this road trip, barring some major trade.

  152. Steve in Kzoo:

    We have yet to hit into a triple play this year. I am thinking that would be a perfect end to this game.

  153. I know there’s been talk of the Tigers and the playoffs since the big trade, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t admit to my own excitement, but at this point I have to say I don’t much care if we will be playoff contenders or not–at this point, I just want to see the team contend in any game at all.

  154. The 2003 Tigers scored 12 runs in starting the year 0-7. the 2008 Tigers have scored 15 runs(assuming no 9th inning scores) in starting the year 0-7. Both seasons began on March 31.

    Forget the playoffs. I say we start a 43 wins countdown.

    So far…..43 to go!

  155. Any chance Leyland shuffles the lineup tomorrow?

    Gotta try something at this point?

  156. I think Leyland has demonstrated pretty convincingly that he won’t change anything at all that matters unless he is absolutely forced.

  157. I think they win tomorrow, I really do. I feel like we have the pitching edge with Bonderman over Bucholz, and we’ll scratch together enough offense to push some runs across (hit and run, squeeze bunt, etc.).

    I know, I’m crazy. But I *have* to believe.

  158. CT Mike,

    If Leyland does much more shuffling, we may see the pitcher batting cleanup.

  160. hmmmm well:

    1.Inge-havent seen him there since 05.
    2. Thames/Jones
    3. Miguel Cabrera
    4. Sheff
    5. Maggs
    6. Guillen
    7. Pudge
    8. Renteria
    9. Romon Santiago

    Maybe thatll start something???? thoughts??

  162. My thought is that the Maggs-Renteria-Pudge cannot even get on base at this point, so you have to try something. At least give Thames a shot somewhere and maybe he can ‘run into one.’

  163. I’m gonna give everyone here some advice.

    Don’t even turn on the television for the next five days.

    Don’t watch the games. Take a break from the slump and come back on Sunday and see if we’ve won yet.

    Because I’m going to take my 5 day sabbatical now.

  164. Mark this team will never push runs across the plate because they don’t believe in small ball at all, like they did last year. They just keep swinging for the fences. And if we did play Detroit tomorrow with our luck it would be the team that had all of the hype with HRs and such. lol And we would still be winless HAHA…….

  167. At this point, I expect Walter Mathau to emerge from the dugout and start telling the Tiger hitters to lean into the pitch.

    It’s really that bad.

    Except there’s no 12 year old girl to bail out the pitching staff.

  168. Ha…maybe we need our own Tanner Boyle to get mad and fire up the team. At the very least Leyland is probably dipping into Buttermaker’s stash of Schlitz.

  169. well, I cant believe I didn’t see that one…..geez I’m sooo dull…I think I need to take a break from the Tigers……geez. That was funny though. Well better luck tomorrow…….maybe….

  170. Thank you, Mark! Not to throw gasoline at this entire situation, but at some point, someone has to be accountable.
    Most likely, it will be Lloyd McClendon. 15 runs in 7 games is unacceptable. Period.
    They’re not going to jettison $140m in players.
    However, some of Leyland’s “hunches” have the right to be questioned, including continuted use of Grilli, acquisition of Jose Mesa, acquisition and use of Neifi Perez, hanging too long with Craig Monroe last year, considering using Pudge in leadoff, proposing to hit his only two lefties (Jones & Granderson) back-to-back, etc.
    Some of his hunches (like a rookie in the W.S. and his verbal tongue lashing to kick off the ’06 run) have worked, but some have not.

  171. Dave, I hear you to a point. What I’m saying is that, except for two magical weeks in October 2006, this team has been throughly average since 8/06, aka the point when people started paying attention. Sure, it’s selective application of data, but relevant I believe.

  172. Danger, Jim Leyland! Danger!

    Maybe he’s hoping those baggie handwarmers he was enjoying today will give him the hot hand.

    Hot off the Grilli.

  173. You’re right stephen.

    My nightmare is that week off before playing the Cardinals in 2006 let all the air out of the bag with this bunch.

  176. Well, it’s times like this when we prove our fanhood.

    I’ll see you guys tomorrow.

  177. If I were the owner, I would start think about Leyland’s job being in jeopardy. This team was clearly unprepared for the regular season coming out of Lakeland. This is a disaster.

  178. I would suggest Grilli is the 12-year old girl, but I think that’s an insult to the girl.

    Personally, I think DD will give Leyland a long leash in terms of his job. He has the utmost respect for Leyland and the rapport he builds with his players, and while DD is aggressive, he’s not foolish enough to can Leyland after 6 games with no obvious replacement. This team, despite it’s horrendous start, is still capable of winning a World Series, but to throw them into further disarray by firing the manager “just to send a message” could backfire so easily that DD could find himself out on the street also.

    Dombrowski has the ability to tighten the reins on the who Leyland wants on the roster, though, and we’ve already seen one move with Beltran coming up. If Grilli isn’t gone by the end of the month, I’m shocked (assuming he continues to s#%t the bed).

  179. I was just curious to see how Tiger fans are taking your poor start. You sound like me and my fellow Mets fans at metsblog.com. I always wished we could have had Leyland but I guess he’s not doing too good right now. For me one week in I already know how this will end for my Mets and its not pretty. At least you guys don’t share your town with Yankee fans!

  180. Brian,

    Don’t put too much stock in the vocal minority.

    For every person agonizing and complaining about every single out, there are 10 more of us patiently waiting for things to turn around.

  181. No way Leyland will or should be fired. Despite what has happened, and it is utterly incomprehensible, Leyland is a good manager. A VERY good manager. More likely McClendon, who was a bad manager-a VERY bad manager, will be given the boot.

    And I’d probably take 0-7 right now over blowing a 7 game lead with 17 to play. Think about how awful THAT would be.

  182. Not over here in Mets land. We are going crazy here because nobody wanted a Yankee coaching us and he is just terrible. Our team isn’t playing for him at all and I wonder if we are simply overrated. For your team I agree with you, I think you will be fine in the long run.

  183. The Tigers are a team with one good active pitcher and one good pitcher who can’t stay healthy. In the minors they have one good pitcher. They traded their third good pitcher for Renteria, which, I predict, will be regarded as one of the worst trades in Tigers history.

    Bonderman is a journeyman-quality pitcher, so is Robertson, so is KRogers in his forties, so is the current version of Dontrelle.

    This team is built around hitting and mediocre pitching, the very formula used by the Texas Rangers for their entire history.

    Porcello will be rightly called up by mid-May. Inge will be traded for two more journeymen pitchers by Memorial Day, the hope being that one of the new pitchers will be a Doyle Alexander/Rick Sutcliffe one-year wonder. Won’t work: 75 wins this year. Drombowski will have many cold-sweats ahead of him.

  184. I can’t believe this season. This is so ridiculous. I am in Arizona right now, so you don’t hear about the Tigers too much, but you guys must be hearing about them all the time.

    This is so sad. I really wanted the Tigers to do good this year. They still might. They have to win a game first.

    Words cannot describe. They really suck

  185. I should amend what I said. We suck right now. We will get better. We have to win a game. But then after that we will get better. Way better.

    Come on guys. We got Miguel Cabrera and Magglio who won the batting title. Good young pitching (Bondo, Verlander). This team will get better. They HAVE to.

    So as Tigers fans. We should give them a mulligan on this first week. There’s 155 games left! They will still have a very good season!

    I have faith, do you?

  186. How Bad?

    Grilli Bad!

    All kidding aside, I think everyone would like to have that Renteria Deal back. Chances are, however, JJ would have been included in the Cabrerra deal anyway.

    I say 90 wins w/ a chance to still win the division. Need to win a series soon, though. Maybe Bondo will be the stopper!

  187. I’m gonna give everyone here some advice.

    Don’t even turn on the television for the next five days.

    Don’t watch the games. Take a break from the slump and come back on Sunday and see if we’ve won yet.

    Because I’m going to take my 5 day sabbatical now.

    Umm Adam. I know you’re discouraged but I kind of want people to keep coming here. I kind of need the business. 🙂

  188. I had absolutely no expectations the Tigers would win today after Boston lost 3 straight and this is their opener. The Tigers just don’t seem prepared well enough, but I think they’ll be good to go in a few weeks. By that time, the fans will have thrown them under the bus and then you’ll fall in love with them all over again.

  189. billfer: After blogging the Michigan basketball season this year… Have fun. It ain’t easy finding stuff to say after games, and streaks like this.

  190. Not much to say other than we are in it for the long haul. I dont like what I see here but these guys are qualiy players. I agree with the moves other than the JJ for Renteria, We may have given away to many years for too few years but the whole sports world is in a win it now mode.

    Billfer, keep the faith brother we have seen much worse than this in Tiger Town and by July we will be saying only a couple out of first. Thanks again for the blog, we really enjoy it here.

    Steve

  191. Oh I’m ok. And I’ve been through worse with this team. Nothing a win won’t cure. But damn it. When is that going to be?

    I actually found myself holding my breath during that Carlos Guillen at bat hoping that would be the one. It was a full count though I believe and I nearly passed out.

  192. Billfer – Do you hold your breath each time someone throws to Carlos, and he’s in the baseline?

  193. 1.) It’s only 7 games into the season. A bit premature for all the negative stuff.

    2.) If you watched the ESPN game a couple days ago, you’ll recall that Dombrowski skirted the question about Cabrera. I don’t hold him accountable for that trade. He clearly indicated that the Big Boss called him and basically said get him. Therefore, D really didn’t have a choice. If you want to rag on someone for the lousy trade, then write Mike. I agree, Cabrera hasn’t shown a lick to us about what makes him worth the payola. In fact he’s scored one run and gave up that contribution today when he screwed up the throw and let Lugo get to second.
    3.) Grilli really is bad, but the starters haven’t been doing particularly well either. Rogers lasted how long today? Granted, two of the runs are contributable to Placido and Cabrera respecitively, but being realistic: The starters ain’t what they used to be.
    4.) It does seem like the Tigers forgot small ball and how well it’s served them the the last couple years, but there are also some adjustments for the players–two new adds and one position shift take time to get used to.
    5.) Cabrera should never have happened. Jim and the rest knew they needed relief pitching yet signed what looks to be a rather erratic youngster not worth as much cash as they have paid him. Whomever above said to trade him and clean out payroll is spot on. Are you all aware that the Tigers payroll is more than almost any two payrolls combined in the ALCD? And look how well giant payrolls have worked for the Yankees.
    6.) Inge totally got the raw end of the Cabrera deal. Alas, instead of trading Cabrera, they are more likely to trade Inge.
    7.) What logic is there in sitting a kid with a hot bat and a stolen base? Clete has one of the hottest bats on the team right now and should have been out there. Shuffle the fielders and you can get him in there. Sit Cabrera till he gts his head on straight, place BInge at 3rd, Clete in CF and watch more runs be produced. Seems common sense to me. Then again, like everyone else here I am a lowly armchair coach.

  194. Calm Down please, can you say fair weather fan?

    Stephen – The start to ’06 up until about August they were on fire.

    Last year they had flip flopped the best record in baseball for awhile with the BoSox until they crumbled.

    There is no point in carrying over a teams record, every slate is fresh on Opening Day.

    This year we are 0-7, I am not worried one bit.

    Maybe the lineup is overrated, but it is and is going to be very very good when this season is over.

    The pitching is also better than we have seen.

    Give it time.

    If you all want to take 5 days off like Adam said and come back it might be good.

    Personally I’d rather they got this garbage out of their system now.

    They will catch fire.

  195. Prediction: Cabrera playing first base by 2010 at the latest. What we do with Guillen i do not know. If not, Cabrera will be playing first base for someone else. I’m not going to jump on the Cabrera hate bandwagon, but I will say it would be my team policy not to give anyone more than a five-year contract. If that means you can’t keep a player so be it. Cabrera’s contract is going to be way too much on this franchise at some point. And the idea of giving Cabrera the eight-year deal BEFORE game one seems ludicrous. He has a history of weight problems and moodiness, you’ve just taken the only incentive off the table for him. This team is overly generous and rewards bad seasons (The IRod renewal) not to mention one good season in five. (Inge).

  196. This almost complete lack of offence is absolutely puzzeling– absurd, really. Was there any indication in spring training that the team would enter such a slump? Does anybody know the GL stats on some of these hitters (…err ground-outers)?

  197. Stephen:

    Could you find a better catcher on the free market or through trade over the summer? I-Rod was the best available. By far.

  198. Ed, I agree it’s premature to be excessively negative–but that’s particularly true when it comes to second guessing the Cabrera deal. This kid is the real deal. Anyone remember the horrendous slump Pujols went through at the start of the season a couple years ago?

    I don’t claim to know much at this point, but I do know we’re going to be happy watching Cabrera play for the Tigers for the next half dozen seasons.

    As for Stephen’s concluding comments, making a few bad deals comes with the territory of being a contender. How many bad deals have the Red Sox made in their (successful) quest to be a perennial contender?

  201. Well tomorrow is a new day will they win? Can Bondo be the stopper? Will the offense score more then 5 runs? Will the bullpen blow up once again?

    I don’t know those answers but I do know one thing, the Tigers are really sucking right now, and the fans are coming down on them hard. I am one of those fans but i do think that theres still time to right the ship.

    Now though a 0-9 start which is possible and a further possible 0-12 is scaring even me. If that happens we won’t be able to climb back up top that mountain. Heres to a great game tomorrow Bondo we need you!!

  202. “PANIC PANIC! PANIC OMG”

    I think we are beyond the point of panic. At least I was on 0-5 Saturday. The only way fans of a particular team should panic is when that team is within range of contention. Tigers are out of contention. They will finish in last place in the big leagues at 120 loses.

    THEY ARE DONE!!!!!!

  203. This team is gonna hit. Cabrera is gonna hit. He’s gonna hit this year and he’ll be hitting in 5 years. He may be a DH in 5 years, but he’ll be hitting.

    The pitching and defense on the other hand? I don’t see much of a bright spot here. When the team does start to hit, they’re still gonna lose a lot of games due to crap pitching. Largely out of the pen, but that starting 5 has me really worried at this point. Verlander I have to believe is gonna be okay, but the rest of those guys? Don’t know about them. And given the pen, we need consistent, quality innings out of our entire rotation. The O-fer start? We are quickly running out of wiggle room here.

  205. I’m also worried about the pitching but Rogers and Verlander seem to be ok. JV and Kenny just need run support to actually be ok and win games. Bondo is up and down, same with Nate and Willis needs to go on DL cause something is WRONG with him. Other then that with everyone’s quality pitching, and the offense showing up during the BoSox game and the home stand, we should be 5-2 thats how good our pitchers pitched. 3,4, and 5 run deficits are not bad. if the offense would show up we should be 5-2 but instead we are 0-7 probably 0-8 if the offense doesn’t hit tomorrow…………

  206. OK…. Last year, the Yankees were 21-29 on May 29th and were 11 games behind the Red Sox. They ended the season at 94-68 only 2 games back. So if somehow the Tigers can get on track, recent history shows that they have more than enough time to get out of the hole they dug themselves. They just have to stop losing NOW!!!!

  207. Leyland is average at best. Please fire him Mr. Illitch. We need a guy who will get up into the — of some of these high priced all stars and tell them to win or sit. They’re pathetic and an embarrassment to the city. If were going to spend money like the Yankees then we should expect success like the Yankees and take no prisoners.

  208. We should start a DP fund. Everyone pledges $.50 or $1 for every DP that we hit into, and once it reaches enough to buy a full page ad in the Freep we’ll tell Mike and Dave to get some Grilli relief pitching in here.

    Or we can donate it to orphans.

  209. For some reason, I am not the least bit down about this. I would take an 0-15 start way over the way we choked away the division in 06 and absolutely crumbled in Cleveland in August (or was it September?) last year. Those two instances were like getting punched in the stomach repeatedly, but this is just some of a damn-another-double-play-hit-into-right-now-oh-well. Then I move on.

  210. Yeah, I’m not too down on them either. Bats started slow last year too. We’ve faced some good pitching. Bannister and Matsuzaka are lights out on anyone.
    I think Granderson being out is a bigger loss than most think. When we go 0-14 with Grandy and 90-58 with him, that should boost his MVP candidacy.
    Things will slowly start to click for this team and I think by mid-May they’ll be winning more than they’re losing. But I’m afraid it’s going to take a couple of bullpen stars being born to get them close to the playoffs.
    I’m a little concerned about Cabrera’s fielding. If Inge can hit reasonably well (better than Jacque Jones), now that we have Cabrera signed longterm, why not DH him more often than not, and put Sheffield in left? I suppose that increases the chances Sheffield hurts himself though.

  211. All the people crying about 120 loss seasons need to go be Yankees fans (moodiest fans ever). The Tigers will never be as bad as in 2003 with this roster and I am not too worried about going even 0-12. I know it’s a different sport, but the Houston Rockets showed that you should never write off a team even if their top player goes down or they have a bad start.

    Please go buy Red Wings playoff tickets instead of crying about the Tigers current bad stretch:).

  212. I’m not down, I’m despondent. I’ll still pay attention, I’ll still root, but it bugs me they don’t “seem” to care about this season as much as all of us fans did. I’m sure it’s more to it than that, but sometimes perception is everything.

  213. My dumb idea of the day: bat Sheffield leadoff. .397 career OBP (.500 so far this year), 22 steals in ’07. Slide Guillen in the 3rd slot since he seems to be one of the only guys who can hit a moving baseball at the moment. Something needs to jumpstart these guys, maybe that would work…

  214. We’re going against a lefty for the first time this year tonight — considering all our right-handed hitting, maybe that will help

  216. People are worried because 2006 end of season debacle, 2007 middle of season losing and now 2008 beginning like this. For three years we have fielded teams that are serious WS contenders. It hasn’t happened often in Detroit. I personally want nothing short of a championship. The Tigers will probably have a winning season when all is said and done, but this start seriously begs the question whether this team has the chemistry to go all the way.

  217. Chris in Dallas:

    That’s not a dumb idea — that’s actually a GOOD idea. However, I don’t think Leyland would ever start to shuffle things around so radically for fear it would send a signal that the Tigers are in panic mode.

    No way the Tigers will lose 120 games this year. Come on.

    Kathy: I also didn’t expect the Tigers to win yesterday — but I did expect a run to cross the plate and I did expect them to put up a little bit of a fight. That said, I DO expect them to win tonight. But even if they lose, this total lack of offense/preparation — whatever you want to call it — has to stop. If they lost a game where they actually didn’t look like a little league team, I’d still be disappointed, but at least I’d sleep a little better. We’re already over a week into the season and I have yet to see one rally.

    Birdy: I agree wholeheartedly. We definitely need Granderson. Aside from the empirical evidence that supports this (I’m not sure what the winning percentage is when Grandy plays vs. what it is when he doesn’t, but I do know it’s considerably higher) there is just something so important to the chemistry to this sluggish/old team when Granderson is in there.

    Ron: Unfortunately, Leyland is untouchable. However you feel about him, I’d wager the farm that he’s here for a while. He makes a considerable amount of bone-headed moves. Save for sentiments found in this forum, however, and perhaps some others like it, he’s the Golden Child who can do no wrong. Here’s the perfect recipe for job security: the press loves him, most of the fans love him, DD loves him, Ilitch loves him, and the players love him. If this city can’t get rid of the likes of Millen, someone with the status of Leyland is surely tenured for life. That said, I agree, he does look like a deer in the headlights these days.

    Ed in OR: Seven games is WAY to short of a sample to dump Cabrera. Come on. While seven years may be too long a contract, for a number of reasons, I’m still on the Cabrera bandwagon. And think of it this way: If it took the Tigers 3/4 of an entire season to dump a mediocre LFer, with mediocre career numbers, one whom they picked up on waivers — and an entire season to replace a 3rd baseman with below-average career numbers (save for an aberration spurt in 2006) what makes you think they would dump an almost-certain future HOFer — who DOES have a stellar track record — after seven games? I realize you are likely posting facetiously — but it’s still way to early to tell whether we have over paid — (or, likely, underpaid) for Cabrera.

    Billfer: If I follow Adam’s advice and take the sabbatical (which seems very sound advice to me), I’ll still stop by the site to keep your traffic numbers up — albeit I’ll immediately close and won’t read anything. (If your advertisers actually read the comments, feel free to delete this one)

  218. Some good news from Baseball Prospectus:

    A seven-game losing streak at the start of the season is no different, from accounting purposes, than one in the middle of June or late August. The only difference is that the consecutive losses stand out more at the beginning of the season rather than later on.

    Without controlling for the specific timing of a losing streak, are there past playoff teams that have dropped as many as the Tigers have in a row at some point? There have been many. Over the past two seasons, in fact, five out of the 16 playoff teams have suffered losing streaks of at least seven games. The 2006 Cardinals suffered two separate losing streaks of eight games, and one more of seven, yet they still managed to win 83 games, take the weak NL Central, and go on to win the World Series. Of course, a win total in the mid-80s wouldn’t get the Tigers within pouncing distance of the AL Central this season, but consider that last year’s 94-win Yankees team lost seven straight in late April, the 93-win 2006 Athletics lost seven straight in late May, and last year’s NL champions, the Rockies, dropped eight in a row in late June en route to 90 regular-season wins. Going back further, we find that 23 pre-2006 division title winners also suffered losing streaks of seven or more games, including the 99-win 2005 White Sox.

    More good stuff on there, including how this lineup is built to kill lefties, but I don’t want to plagiarize anymore.

  220. Tsmith – good to ‘see’ you’re back, always a quality poster. However, I found this quote interesting:

    Unfortunately, Leyland is untouchable. However you feel about him, I’d wager the farm that he’s here for a while. He makes a considerable amount of bone-headed moves. Save for sentiments found in this forum, however, and perhaps some others like it, he’s the Golden Child who can do no wrong. Here’s the perfect recipe for job security: the press loves him, most of the fans love him, DD loves him, Ilitch loves him, and the players love him.

    unquote.

    I’ve long been a Leyland supporter, but quite honestly, for over a year now I feel like I’m the only one, press, fans, just about everything I see, hear, or read, is ripping him, calling for him to get fired. The fans I’m around are absolutely brutal, insult after insult with only the occasional light of support. If there are supporters out there, that’s great, I just can’t find them.

    Having said that, while I still support him, his stock has slipped slightly in my book. The team hasn’t been loafing, but they haven’t been giving a 100% either, they look lethargic. In my humble opinion, it seems to me, their attitude, if they win its fine, if they lose its fine, they’ll put in their hours, clock out, and collect their paychecks, if they’re 0-7 so be it, we’ll keep doing the same things and we’ll start winning eventually, if not, so what, no big deal. This indifference falls on the shoulders of the manager. I’m dissappointed that nothing has been done. Not looking for anything radical, but something. There’s nothing sacred about the lineup order. Shake things up, its not a panic move, if he thinks that, that’s silly. Some managers mix things up continually, win or lose. Inge has the hottest bat right now, have him lead off until he cools down. It doesn’t have to be a permanent move, but while he’s on fire, giving 100%, forcing the defense to make errors because of his hustle, reward him. It’s a miniscule, tiny reward, but its something. Even if its only for a day.

    Or, if the current lineup is canonical in his mind for some silly reason….fine. How about showing a little fire. Cabrera was rung up for strike 3……I think it was Saturday, no way did he come even CLOSE to swinging from where I was, he barely lifted the bat off his shoulder(later on, a White Sock went twice as far and didn’t get rung up). The point is, that was the perfect opportunity to light a fire. Cabrera got ripped off on a rotten call, perfect opportunity to start an argument, get kicked out, and maybe inspire something in this listless, apathetic team. Pinella did it last year and it turned around the Cubs season.

    Come on Jimmy, be Jimmy.

  221. Greg:

    Good points about Leyland — he seems genuinely “worried” to me — not knowing exactly what to do… kinda like how Bush looked in the grade school right after he was told the planes hit (although this is no way is a political reference — just a parallel of dumbfoundedness). It seems to me he is walking on eggshells right now, for fear it could get worse if he makes the wrong moves. If he shows “too” much emotion, i.e. getting kicked out of the game, or mixing up the lineup, or bruising egos but shifting batters up/down — or giving them a day off — he might “scare the kids in the classroom” — or, rather, it might send a signal that he is out of control — but by doing nothing, of course, and by just waiting for the tide to turn, that is exactly what he is: out of control.

    I’ve always been neutural about Leyland and many times have supported Leyland (and dissed him when called for). Some strongly disagree, but I argued his strength lies in managing and motivating egos as opposed to managing the game — which we all know isn’t his strength — with this particular group of so-called All-Stars Leyland should be an asset. But for the love of Petunia, stir up the lineup and/or kick some sand on the umpires shoes to shake things up. The players will respond.

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