2008 Season, Game Post

Game 50: Twins at Tigers

115 Comments

PREGAME: The Tigers look to close out their 6 game homestand on a positive note. They’ll send out Justin Verlander who has pitched better as of late with 3 runs, 10 K’s, and 4 walks in 12 innings spanning his last 2 starts. True, those starts were against the Royals and Mariners, but still, it’s progress.

Glen Perkins will make his 4 start of the season. He’s 3 for 3 in quality starts with 12 K’s and 2 BB’s in 18.1 innings.

The Tigers haven’t won on a Sunday this season and have been outscored 46-13.

MIN @ DET, Sunday, May 25, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

POSTGAME: Just got back from the game. It was a lovely afternoon at the park, save for the game on the field. Actually, I think I’m getting desensitized to the losing, or maybe I’m relieved in some weird way when it’s the bullpen that falls apart instead of the rest of the team.

For the bulk of the day it was a pretty even pitcher’s duel. Verlander didn’t appear to be particularly sharp, but was effective nonetheless. I wasn’t watching the radar gun at the stadium, but judging by the comments it sounds like he had his old velocity back.

On the offensive side, the Tigers were making quick outs, but credit some of that to Perkins who was throwing strikes. Perkins through 69 of his 104 pitches for strikes. There’s a certain point where being down 0-1 automatically isn’t such a good strategy either. And the Tigers for their part had a number of hard hit balls. Guillen hit the ball well all 4 times. Ordonez had a couple line drives, one went for a double, the other an out. Raburn was robbed on a play by Cuddyer. Yes they scored only 1 run, but I never got the impression they were just rolling over. This was a tie game through 7 innings after all.

But then there was the Cruceta inning. I’m not a fan of the intentional walk in that situation, and even less a fan of the follow-up unintentional walk. But what was more idiotic is not having anybody warming up in the pen throughout the inning. It was the same situation in the 7th when Verlander loaded the bases and nobody was up.

Why wouldn’t you have a lefty available to face Mauer/Morneau in that situation? I know that both can hit lefties, Mauer especially, but I’ve got to go with platoon splits when you are cobbling together the back end of the bullpen. I still think that Cruceta can be effective, but we’re not at that point yet. Unless Seay and Willis were unavailable thanks to McClendon leaving both in too long on Friday night.

115 thoughts on “Game 50: Twins at Tigers”

  1. This game was scaring me enough, but then when I saw the Tigers haven’t won on a Sunday this year, I’m wondering if I should even watch. The matchup I believe obviously favors the Tigs with Verlander going for them and a lefty for the Twins. When everything points one way I’m never surprised when it turns out just the opposite. Let’s hope that’s not the case today!

  3. Did anyone just see that 99 MPH fastball a second ago? Daaamn. And he seems to be throwing upper 90’s consistently.

  6. Yep, I noticed that too, Dave. And he followed up with a 98 a few pitches later. Very good to see.

    Huge DP there, bad day for Young so far.

  8. See what happens when you throw strikes. You get the hitter to help you get those outs… Nice recovery

  9. This is yet another case of the Tigers not being able to bust through a pitcher who is pitching so-so, but not dominant by any stretch.

  11. “This is yet another case of the Tigers not being able to bust through a pitcher who is pitching so-so, but not dominant by any stretch.”

    Ironically, the Twins are saying the same thing: they should easily have 3 runs by now. They’ve already got a slew of walks and have knocked the crap out of half a dozen pitches.

  14. Verlander isn’t pitching that well, but the defense is saving him. Who would have thought?

  15. Because Mike Lamb is probably the greatest player of his generation, Mark.

    V strikes out Harris and Inge throws out Lamb in a steal attempt. Gomez then grounds to 3rd, and Guillen (amazingly not Inge!)throws him out in a pretty awesome play. Bottom of the 5th!

  27. Verlander’s at 99 pitches, which means Leyland almost certainly will let him start the 7th.

    I agree with you, Adam. No way would I let him go out there.

  29. Chris,

    I hope you’re joking. Maybin is hitting 238/358/401 with 66 K’s in 172 AB (a pace for over 200K’s in one season) at AA.

  30. This is where Justin gives up his runs. Leyland trying to stretch a double into a triple.

  33. Another 99 mph! Sure, he’s missed with most of his high speed pitches, but hey!

  34. Verlander is completely overthrowing everything.

    Just one more out, c’mon Justin.

  36. Leyland playing with fire, here. I know Verlander is your ace, but he’s at 119 pitches. Yes still throwing hard, but no command. All over the place.

    Hold your breath, everyone.

  38. phew

    PLEASE get him some runs so Leyland doesn’t feel compelled to throw JV back out there for the 8th inning (at this point I really wouldn’t be surprised).

  39. Verlander induces a groundout and does a meek little fist-pump on his way to the dugout.

  40. Rod just accepted the marriage proposal (delivered via sign) from a hyperactive brunette college student.

  43. “Marcus has really adopted well to not playing every day.” – Rod Allen.

    Who is he adopting well?

  44. I have to say I support Leyland’s decision to let him get the last out. Yes, a gamble. But at some point, you have to support him, all things considered. V needs at chance at the W.

  45. Remember when Vance Wilson homered in the ninth inning to beat Johan Santana and the Twins in 2006? That was pretty awesome.

  49. Perkins is just like Galarraga was earlier in the year. He throws strikes, it’s only his 4th ML start. There’s no book on him yet, so it’s not surprising to see us struggle a little bit today. Remember what Galarraga did to the Indians in his first start.

    Still frustrating, though. Need to get into the Twins bullpen.

  50. At this point, Justin’s gotta be happy with a no-decision that lowers his ERA like this.

    But as he said yesterday, he doesn’t care how he pitches “as long as we win.” So we’d better freaking win. You know, to keep him happy.

  54. I’m not sure about walking Morneau to give Cuddyer the go-ahead run as a sacrifice.

    So stupid.

  62. Grand slam by Kubel.

    The AB was pretty much a textbook example of how not to approach a hitter. So much for that.

  67. Cruceta did it to himself, at least Verlander didn’t get the loss.

  70. Who was reporting that Cruceta was going to be the great relief hope of the Tigers? He can’t throw strikes and all he does is what most of our relief pitchers do. No way the Tigers will ever climb out of the cellar if they can’t get relievers who can make critical outs. They hardly ever do………..!

  71. McB – no one’s talking about the postseason. We all would just like to finish the season over .500. A game over, even.

    And Sky, it was arguably Jim Leyland’s fault. Sure, Cruceta walked a guy of his own, but the bases shouldn’t have been loaded in the first place. Besides, his stats coming into the game was 10 appearances and a 1.89 ERA. It was one pitch.

  72. I counted four, Kyle. Who throws a high changeup to a major league hitter, anyway?!?

  73. I hate the Twins….. More central division ownage of this team (5-17….ERRRRRR)…. More Sunday losing (0-7)….. More frustration….

  79. Adam, you miss the point……..a relief pitcher has one job…….throw strikes and maintain control. Cruceta’s strikeout was on balls that the batter gave him. He also walked a man. Then he goes to 3-1 with the bases loaded. It was NOT one pitch. His stats……..and all relief stats…..are only meaningful to the extent you can get the outs that matter….Tiger relief pitchers consistently fail to do that this year. Or have I been watching some other team every day?

  81. Todd Jones’ Christian rock entrance music must add enormously to his intimidation factor — of course, that mustache probably makes any attempt at menace something of a lost cause regardless

  82. Prior to the slam….with men on 1st and 2nd………I told my wife that I wish I had $500.00 and someone to bet that the Twins would score 3 or 4. This is not angry cynicism….I am now beyond that. It is simply the way the Tiger bullpen is on a regular basis in close games.

  83. The only Non-disappointment this far Chris is Maggs. Someone needs to step up who is NOT the manager and challenge this team. They need a clubhouse leader.

  84. Everyone strikes out from time to time……..It’s just you expect Miguel to have a better eye than that.

  85. Sky, I disagree. You would probably not be saying anything if the last pitch had been a ground-out to second base to get us out of the inning. In that manner, it IS only about one pitch. And that pitch was a strike!

    Sure, he fell behind Kubel, but seriously, the guy was hitting over .450 with the bases loaded. You can’t pin it all on Cruceta. And it’s not just the Tigers occasionally giving up runs late in games…did you watch the Twins last night? Overall, I think everyone here would agree that the bullpen has been rather a bright spot on our team, with most of the woes coming with the offense (1 run scored today) and our starting pitching. Don’t take one situation and say it’s proof that “Tiger relief pitchers consistently fail” to get outs that matter. That’s disingenuous.

  86. Chris,

    Cabrera is hitting 282/366/475 (841 OPS) coming in to today. He’s second on the team in HR, RBI, runs, and hits. He also had an 8-game hitting streak coming in. Consider those up against the numbers of whomever he’s replacing, presumably Inge.

    What would you consider “acceptable” numbers so that he would not be a disappointment in your mind?

    This team hasn’t been very good, but Cabrera is really not the one to blame (at least not the ONLY one)

  90. Brian, Todd just wants to make the rest of the bullpen feel better. He’s being a leader!

  91. Rod Allen is VERY smart! He says Leyland took Todd Jones out of the game in case he wants to use him tomorrow night. How bout this Rod: He took him out of the game because he sucks and couldn’t get the final out!

  93. Cabrera has been a disappointment so far but he doesn’t suck and hasn’t sucked even this year. He’s been the team’s second best hitter this year. He came into the game 13th in the league in OPS.

  94. Lee,

    If Cabrera has been the second best hitter on the team as you acknowledge, how has he been a disappointment?

    The defense was terrible at third, but they didn’t acquire him for his glove, so that’s no surprise. He’s been adequate at first, nothing special.

    It would be great if he had 15 HR and 50 RBI, but I’m not sure those are reasonable expectations. He’s 24 and adjusting to a new league. I’d say he’s been solid, but can be (and will be) better later in the year. I definitely don’t think he’s been a disappointment.

  96. Mark In Chicago: I bet Lee is saying that he’s been a disappointment from the standpoint that his career line is .311/.386/.537 with a 142 OPS+ and this year he’s posted ‘just’ .282/.366/.475 for an OPS+ of 129. While he’s been very good, he hasn’t been “Miguel Cabrera Good” this year which is a mild disappointment. I’m not a hater at all and loved the deal from the get-go, but in terms of what Miggy is capable of doing, he hasn’t done it quite yet in Detroit.

  98. Nobody warming up with Cruceta in trouble – that’s just the way Leyland runs his bullpen – nothing new there.

  99. Sure, Mike, fair point, but you’re looking at 51 games in a new league. He’s never faced most of these pitchers before, and they would have the advantage initially.

    I’m not accusing anyone of hating, I just don’t get all the criticism towards Cabrera when he hasn’t been that bad. As you mention, he’s slugging 29% better than the average player. It makes sense in the case of Sheffield, but for Cabrera I just don’t get it.

  100. 2 areas of disappointment with Miguel Cabrera:

    POWER: Matt Joyce has the same “new league” problem. He has 5 HR. Cabrera has 7 in many more at bats.

    RISP OPS: Only Granderson, Joyce, and Raburn are below Cabrera. Even woeful Sheffield tops him. Cabrera’s RISP batting average is .204, not much better than Sheffield, and again only 3 Tigers are worse.

    This is just disappointment. He’s not a “bust.”

  101. It’s hard to imagine the Tigers response to 21-29 being anything but “stay the course and hope they step it up.” I’m less optimistic now than I was even at 14-20 that there is going to be a stepping up. It is easy to foresee more of the inconsistent, one step forward, one step back that we’ve seen since 0-7.

    I don’t fault the Tigers’ off-season moves. I was looking forward to the offensive juggernaut. It ain’t happening. I can only hope the Tigers don’t decide that the plan only needed to “marinate” for a year, and then roll it out again in 2009. I hope there’s more emphasis on pitching and defense next time, even if it takes parting with some of the offensive pieces.

  102. Hey, where did my middle paragraph go? I was going to say:

    If the Tigers are going to stumble to 77-85, they could make it more interesting for me by addressing some 2009 problems already this year. Getting a real third baseman, a real catcher, a real closer, and overhauling the starting rotation by degrees (how? I dunno). If not a real catcher, then ease Inge into the starting role already this year. Or play Inge somewhere everyday – the more you play him, the more tradable he gets. Maybe some gullible team can be induced to part with pitching for him. Lose Sheffield and put Guillen where he belongs and where he’s going to end up in 2009, anyway.

    All that or something equally “radical” would be more entertaining than the show they’re currently putting on. Win 19-3, lose 6-1. Sure, losing is never satisfying, but there are degrees of dissatisfaction with it.

    Still glad I’m not a Mariners fan, though. Go Tigers.

  103. Geez, what a beautiful day to be at the ballpark. That one hurt because the Tigers were in it right up til Cruceta. That was the killer. Just keep going, Tigers!!!

  104. Sean in Illinois:

    2 areas of disappointment with Miguel Cabrera:

    POWER: Matt Joyce has the same “new league” problem. He has 5 HR. Cabrera has 7 in many more at bats.

    RISP OPS: Only Granderson, Joyce, and Raburn are below Cabrera. Even woeful Sheffield tops him. Cabrera’s RISP batting average is .204, not much better than Sheffield, and again only 3 Tigers are worse.

    This is just disappointment. He’s not a “bust.”

    Matt Joyce also doesn’t have a book against him about what his strengths/weaknesses might be, and if there is one starting it certainly isn’t pack with 4 years of trends and tendencies like Miggy’s is. New league and many of these pitchers have faced him, however, they have the book on what he likes and what he doesn’t like.

    That said, the rest of those splits are nice but incredibly small samples (as most splits are) and usually (especially in May) are still prone to large fluctuations one way or the other so I don’t put much stock into his OPS in different situations.

  105. Good points, Mike, and I figured the comparison with Joyce might be a little unfair. But NL pitchers also had a big book on Miguel, and couldn’t do much with it. Unfamiliar coaching, defensive distractions, and the pressure of being the new Franchise Guy on an expected winner might be affecting him, too, although maybe it’s a stretch to apply those last 2 to any given plate appearance.

    As far as small sample size for OPS/BA with RISP goes: It’s not that I don’t expect Cabrera’s numbers to go up. It’s that I find them disappointing so far. These are real results from real games, even if it’s only been 2 months.

    Cabrera will tear it up, no doubt, but after 50 games he’s still one of the more culpable ones in the Tigers’ failure to plate runners.

  106. This is an innocent question (actually more than one), so don’t flame me to a crisp, now.

    Has it been Leyland’s (and maybe Hernandez’s) MO all along, this no guy warming up in the pen when X is in trouble, or is it new? If it’s not new, I have to ask: Do you HAVE to have a guy warming up in the pen when there’s trouble with the current reliever? If you do, then once the bullpen is in, shouldn’t somebody else be warming up just in case for the whole rest of the game? A pitcher can lose it at any given point. Could it be that Leyland puts the guy in he expects to get it done that whole inning, no “we’ll see how he does against this guy” about it? How long does a guy have to warm up in the pen anyway? Why wouldn’t a team have the available bullpen guys staying loose all game? Would it kill their expensive arms to throw a baseball once in a while over the course of 3 hours?

    I’m just trying to understand, not defending Leyland. But I do wonder why I never see questions from the press or answers from Leyland on this matter. It seems quite controversial among devoted and knowledgeable fans here.

    Feel free to think of me as stupid, but direct your comments to the questions, please.

  108. “Has it been Leyland’s (and maybe Hernandez’s) MO all along, this no guy warming up in the pen when X is in trouble, or is it new?”

    This has been the case since Leyland took over, as far as I can recall.

  109. Pitcher’s don’t go 8 Innings for Leyland (no matter what he says) and he loves the same 1-2 relievers out of the bullpen no matter what. Ask Jason Grilli. But he also loves to hang dudes out to dry on the mound. Ask just about every reliever we’ve had since he’s taken over.

  111. “Cabrera will tear it up, no doubt, but after 50 games he’s still one of the more culpable ones in the Tigers’ failure to plate runners.”

    almost 50 games into Cabrera’s career as a Tiger and what have we seen:

    He is an average hitter overall.

    He is terrible hitter with RISP.

    He has average-to-marginal HR power.

    He can’t field his position.

    The guy just sucks. The Tigers should get rid of him before the league realizes that he is grossly overrated. When that happens, his trade value will plunge to zero.

  112. So Chris, by your definition there are only 16 or fewer above average hitters in the American Leauge. Because Cabrera is 17th in OPS. Do you have any concept of an average player?

  113. Cabrera would indeed be average, were there only 30 or so players in baseball.

  114. Funny stuff, Gritt Clutchington. Every picture I’ve seen of Bud Selig proves the hypocrisy of his anti-corpse-reanimation statements.

  115. Yeah, Mike R., I knew about Cabrera’s better men-on OPS. I don’t want to say any more about Cabrera for fear of inflaming the non-debate.

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