2008 Season, Game Post

Game 65: White Sox at Tigers

132 Comments

PREGAME: The Tigers take on Javier Vazquez tonight. You may remember Vazquez from an earlier Tiger debacle this year in which he fanned 9 and walked none in 7 shut out innings. It resulted in the first eruption from Mt Leyland in 2008. The Tigers don’t have his number. In Vazquez’s last 4 outings against Detroit he’s lasted at least 7 innings and not given up more than 3 runs.

Justin Verlander on the other hand has struggled against the White Sox this year. He’s allowed 15 runs in 2 starts with 7 walks and 7 K’s.

Verlander very rarely gets run support this year, and the Tigers track record against Vazquez would indicate a continuation of the trend.

CHW @ DET, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

Game Time 7:05

POSTGAME: Pitchers pitching. Hitters hitting. Fielders fielding. I could get use to this.

  • Verlander only fanned 3, but he walked none and picked up an inordinate amount of pop-outs. The result was an easy breezy complete game. The first for the Tigers in 364 days.
  • Miguel Cabrera may have had a game changing walk. He worked a 14 pitch walk leading off the second inning. That inning turned into a Marcus Thames three run jimmy-jack. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I think the 14 pitches were probably more than any inning the last time they faced Vazquez.
  • Again, everybody contributed on offense – for the most part. Jeff Larish continues to struggle and chased a lot of high fastballs.
  • Brent Clevlen made another nice play tonight. And Carlos Guillen has been picking it lately as well.
  • The Tigers themselves were a little jumpy tonight going 8 straight batters at one point swinging at the first pitch. But it works when you get hits and homers.

132 thoughts on “Game 65: White Sox at Tigers”

  1. Call me crazy, but I sense a reversing of trends for tonight. One JV (Vasquez) will get lit up, while the other JV will be locked in.

  3. The White Sox shall be destroyed. Javier Vasquez shall be destroyed. Matt Thornton, Nick Masset, Octavio Dotel, Boone Logan, and Scott Linebrink? They shall be destroyed. Chicago shall be a land of tears and broken dreams tonight!

  5. Polanco smacks a high fastball to right for the game’s first hit, but it comes to nothing as Guillen and Ordonez fly and ground out respectively. 2nd inning, no score

  6. Verlander has a subpar inning, needing a staggering 8 pitches to dispatch the Sox in the second. He has no velocity tonight, but that’s compensated for by his terrific location and the ridiculously over-anxious Sox hitters

  7. Yeah, he really labored there in the second, didn’t he Dave?

    Both lineups are uber-aggressive right now.

  9. Great AB by Cabrera, a 14-pitch walk. Looks like he’s seeing the ball well, and he fouled off a TON of pitches.

  11. Epic 14 pitch AB for Cabrera that results in a walk. Vazquez threw him approximately 300 fastballs low in the zone, each of which Cabrera fouled off. I’m lost as to why he thought that focusing on that location was a good strategy.

  14. THAMES HR!!!!! He just clobbered the first pitch he saw, and you could tell it was gone the second he made contact. 3-0 Tigers.

    The HR was off a slider right down the middle. Vazquez has made a lot of location mistakes already.

  16. Jim. This is God. Fetch me my cigarettes.

    Wait, no, actually I quit. Just like you need to quit this LF carousel thing you seem to enjoy so much. Thames, he’s a nice guy. Give him a shot for me, eh?

  17. Like night and day…

    They were asking for that…letting 2 guys on in front of Thames–in a night game no less!

    Today’s fun fact:

    Marcus “Night Train” Thames, AB per HR ratio, ’08:

    Day games: 1 for 35
    Night games: 1 for 10

  18. Let’s just cancel all further day games for the rest of the year.

    Golly, do these White Sox like to swing.

  19. What’s the record for induced pop-outs by a pitcher in a game?

    Verly has 6 through 3.

  22. Adam, I bet it’s pretty high…if you think about it pitchers starting against the Tigers in May were getting spotted 2 or 3 by Sheffield alone…

  23. Goodness, Edgar must have sold his soul to the devil. He gets the gift base hit that should have been scored an error, and now the infield squibber that jumps past Crede.

    2 hits that have travelled maybe a total of 200 feet.

  24. That can’t be right Dave. Someone told me Cabrera is incapable of hitting .280.

    And with that Chris is off of moderation.

  25. Dave: “Another hit for Cabrera. For those of you keeping track, he’s up to .281.”

    For those of us who deny the existence of day games, that translates as “for those of you keeping track, he’s up to .327”

  27. At one point in this game 8 consecutive Tigers swung at the first pitch. The results were 1 homer, 1 single, 2 walks, and 4 outs.

  28. O Cabrera scores on A Pierzynski single. Pierzynski decided to go for second for no good reason, though, and was thrown out by Maggs. 3-1 Tigers

  29. BINGE double! Possibly the grittiest double I’ve ever seen.

    Meanwhile, Granderson continues to struggle.

  30. Rod: “It’s no secret, most Latin players love to eat their rice and beans on a daily basis.”

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  32. Yeah. Maggs singles Inge in, Miggy pops out in foul territory.

    Vasquez at 78 pitches through 4.
    Verlander at 37 through 4.

  33. Verlander needs to show Robertson how to make a good 2-strike pitch like the one he just threw to Crede.

  34. Dave, Inge is the grit that sits in the…no wait, Inge is the straw that stirs the grit into the…oh nevermind.

    This messes up my new day/night platoon system though…Inge is on the daylight list.
    (Granderson however: still daylight guy).

  36. Wow, I just noticed Verlander’s pitch count. If he stays at this pace he’s good for about 12 innings…

  37. Damn, beat to the punch again! Adam clearly has a faster internet connection…

  39. Actually those high ones can turn out to be pretty good for that “single to shortstop” thing Edgar has been working on…

  40. “Sorry about a hiccup on the site guys. The database server crapped out.” I think billfer will find when he checks the various logs or whatnot that the “crapout” occurred immediately following this comment from Dave BW:

    Rod: “It’s no secret, most Latin players love to eat their rice and beans on a daily basis.”

    Not that I’m inferring anything…

  43. Do you think Skip is about ready to pull JV? He’s not used to having anyone go more than 6 innings, it might just be reflexive (is that a word?) for Leyland to pull his starter in the 7th.

  44. I don’t know but that pitch Vazquez struck Inge out on was probably his best pitch of the game

  45. Why do I suddenly have this urge to have a seven layer burrito and Samba? No particular order. I don’t even known any Latin.

  47. Be careful with the burritos the database server is sensitive tonight.

    Considering all the balls these guys hit hard right at people when things were at their worst, I think it’s a good sign that they are starting to get the Cue ball in the Corner Pocket Triples, etc.

  48. Clutch hits seem to be happening. Polanco’s BA is above .300. Cabrera seems to be seeing the ball well. Could this finaly be the offense whe thought we will see in ’08?

  51. “Clutch hits seem to be happening. Polanco’s BA is above .300”

    Or as we say in the nighttime utopia where Day Games have been stricken from the land…Polanco’s BA is above .355

  52. 10 strikeouts against us. If you’d told me we’d strike out this much, I’d have assumed we were going to get shut out again.

  53. “Cleven has already eared his place these two nights!”

    Sky I never noticed that, they are kind of odd. Sorta big, but they aren’t huge, it’s more that they are far back on his head or something, and they stick out funny from under his cap.

  55. Been a great game so far….but these called 3rd strikes like Cabrera and Larish took this inning do not look good. The pitches were close enough for protecting swings at least.

  58. Verlander is just incredibly good tonight. What a relief to see him get support, because he has definitely thrown better all year than his record shows. One year ago tomorrow he had his no-hitter, and that was the last CG for Tiger pitching since.

  61. Man, we’ve struck out a ton tonight. It’s one thing to do it against Vazquez, but Masset and Loaiza?

  62. Sky, I agree about Larish, he’s starting to look like he did his first few games, like he’s overmatched. Hopefully this isn’t a regression, just a bad night (improvement isn’t always a straight line…)

    [I couldn’t resist joking on the “eared” typo, since I had actually just realized his ears looked funny in his photo, and there it was!)

  63. “One year ago tomorrow he had his no-hitter, and that was the last CG for Tiger pitching since.” Sky makes a good comment; I hadn’t thought of that, who knows, maybe it’s got Verlander a bit pumped up.

    I’m all for the CG though; his pitch count is mid-80’s, and it’s like a little carrot to balance out all the little sticks (grumbling about going deep in counts and getting to the bullpen too soon).

  64. terrible call right there, Anderson was safe by 2 feet.

    oh well, i’ll take it

  68. It was an enjoyable performance on many levels. We might even be developing a bit of that thing…what’s it called again…yeah, momentum! that’s it.

  70. I’m feeling maybe like the team fortunes could change for the better now. The Tigers haven’t quite been the same since Verlander’s last complete game, so now maybe the momentum will be reversed.

    I’m all about praying to the baseball Gods at this point!

  71. I feel like I’ve passed the great prediction torch off to Chris In Dallas. Kudos to you, good sir. Who’s got the baton tomorrow?

  72. Wow, impressive game by Verlander, although he is still on pace for 20 loses.

    Just when you thought the Tigers would be swept and avoid all further talk of possibly winning the division or postseason hopes, they are on the verge themselves of sweeping the formerly-hot division leaders, putting some decent momentum together, and being back to a single-digit games deficit.

    Personally, I am still waiting for the magic .500.

  75. I refuse to get sucked in. I need to see 10-12 games of consistently good play before that happens.

  76. Mark, you’re already sucked in my friend. All true fans are. You wouldn’t be on this blog night after night if you weren’t. Great win. This is one of the few games I didn’t get to watch and I’m sorry I was absent. It sounds like we finally outplayed a team in all facets.

  78. I know, Ken. You’re completely right. It was a great win and hopefully the start of a long stretch of solid baseball. We just need a good strech to get back in it.

  79. Ken maybe it is you and me ….I haven’t been able to watch either of the last two games….I will be afraid to watch tomorrow…

  80. Here’s a question:

    We are facing a struggling pitcher tomorrow, who also happens to be left-handed.

    Tomorrow is a day game.

    Coleman, do you start Thames in left tomorrow? I don’t think there’s any question, but you never know with Leyland.

  81. I went back on gameday and seen the Cabrera AB, and it was impressive– a grinder-outer if there ever was one.

  83. I’m trying not to think of tomorrow…why spoil the good mood? And yet in just a few hours an ominous wave of sunshine will roll in to bury the team under daylight…

    My first option: rain dance.

    The Thames question was already bothering me though. On the one hand: Thames has 7 HR, 5 vs LHP (7.6 AB/HR!) and 2 vs RHP (30 AB/HR). To make it tougher, it’s important when he hits a HR–Tigers are 6 – 0 when he does (he had 2 in one game).

    On the other hand, he has 1 HR in the daytime (35 AB/HR) and 6 at night 10.5 AB/HR). Oh, and his daytime HR? in a 3:55 “day” game! So he’s equally bad daytime/vs RHP and equally good nighttime/vs LHP. Hmmm…

  84. Wow. Had to miss this one, but great thread. I feel now almost like I did follow the game.

    Dave, love your reporting. Coleman, love your stats. Dallas Chris, love your prediction, though Dave’s was more poetic. Everyone else, I just love you. Group hug.

    Two words, young man: Marcus… Thames. Also nice to hear of a Tigers pitcher simply cruising. First time this year, really – right? The Ace. Justin and The Cruisers.

    There is wailing and gnashing of teeth going on 60-odd miles to the southeast of me, and I am loving it.

  85. The other thing I wonder…I’m not sure if these guys would even have a concept that they are doing so differently in day vs night games. If not, and someone showed them this–would they suddenly start improving? Or would they feel more pressure during the day games, and play even worse? [This doesn’t apply to any of them who are actual vampires, obviously]

  86. Coleman – I would guess that some of the players are aware of the day game record, at least in a general sense. I would also guess that Leyland has been made aware of it somehow or just knows it, but I doubt that it’s the sort of thing he would take very seriously.

    The only thing I think a manager could do about it, if there’s anything that could be done, would be a simple change of the pregame routine, change for the sake of change, a slight shakeup, nothing major. Just to (maybe) shake off any ruts they might have gotten into.

    I dunno. Earlier curfew? I don’t think they have curfews any more, though, do they?

  87. Rice and beans except when the ‘roids erupt . How many more runs do we need for a thousand? We should stick with the Mike and Chris show; they’re unbeaten. It’s your turn Mike R.

  88. The 1:00 game today seems unproportianally important to me for several distinct reasons.

    1. The day game curse must be put to rest. I don’t like our “creatures of the night” rep. It’s slightly creepy.
    2. We need to build on momentum instead of stunting it like we normally do following big wins. No more two steps forward one step back stuff.
    3. We need to show the Central Division that we won’t be trampled on any longer. Strike a little fear into them. Only a sweep will really send that message. 2 out of three is forgettable.
    4. We drastically need another full game advance in the standings.
    5. Player confidence could really be fueled. One more solid game by Thames could cement his presence in the line-up.

    Hi, I’m master of the obvious. Nice to meet you. I think I just always wanted to write some form of a list. Albeit generic and uninformative, you still have to concede that it is a list.

  89. how about a team breakfast and call it dinner so you think you are heading for a night game….maybe play music like Night Fever, Turn out the lights, Into the Night, Good night Irene, and show movies like Nightmare on Elm Street or Night Stalker, or Saturday Night fever……Tape and play the 6:00 pm news……..this should all work shouldn’t it..

  90. Ken

    1. Nice list.
    2. I concede that it is a list.
    3. I can see that it is a list.
    4. Billfer should make a rule that all posts be in the form of a list.
    5. I like lists because… well, I’ll post a list of the reasons later.

    It’s hard for me to believe at this point that Thames can possibly do anything to cement his presence in the lineup. I’ve resigned myself to LF by committee. Maybe this will help somehow (my resignation).

  91. Who is this Brian Rogers the Tigers have signed to a minor league contract? The RHP the Tigers drafted in 2003 who’s pitched for the Pirates and more recently Indianapolis in the IL?

  92. Reading this entire thread put a smile on my face. You guys are too much. I am going to toot my own horn, though (BTW it’s a french horn) – my JV reversal prediction was very astute. Yay me.

  93. The only good thing about a lineup without Thames is that it prevents us from having to hear Rod tell the story about how Leyland decided to put him on the 06 roster for the millionth time.

    And Chris, I’m very proud of our game threads this year — mostly because I get a kick out of reading them weeks or months later.

  94. Some people get lists from other family members when they get up in the morning. I can’t stand lists. Go Tigers.

  95. Dave: our thread chemistry is off the charts. Very gritty. Like a team of 9 David Ecksteins. Or maybe 5 Ecksteins and 4 Darin Erstads.

  96. Verlander pitched a fast game!
    I need to check some highlights of the Gil at bat. Good on ya, Gil.
    I’ll be at the game this afternoon, with Kenny on the mound. Every game Kenny game I’ve attended so far has resulted in a W. However, this is my first day game (besides Opening Day).
    I second the motion that day games are stricken for the record.
    A win today would be huge.

  97. Looking at the schedule til’ the All-Star break, we can definitely begin to motor our way up the standings.

  98. Chris — Holy crap, five Ecksteins and four Erstads! Can you even imagine how great that team would be??!?

  99. 14 pitch at bats are always a good thing. Anyone remember the 15 pitch walk that Inge drew against the A’s back in ’06 that led to a late inning comeback? That was sweet. Also, I’m beginning to think that the body double that was taking Verlander’s place early in the year has been replaced with the actual Justin Verlander. That’s good to know.

  100. Oh yes I remember — it was an 18 pitch AB that Leyland referred to as a “Marlboro and a half”, and my brother referred to as “the most boring good baseball moment I’ve ever seen.” Those were heady times, my friends!

  101. I remember that it was a day game and I was following the action online at work. I thought the computer froze up or something. Anyway, I think the most boring good baseball moment has to be an unassisted triple play. There’s really only one way to do it, and it’s over in like .341 seconds before you really knew what happened.

  102. Tiff, I’m headed over, I’m in sec 338 row 15

    I am a bit hesitant actually. Due to my cable still being out I have not been able to watch the last two games or be on the blog at the same time. Is my isolation from the outside world what the Tigers have needed? Hope not!

  104. Time for Guess Today’s Lineup. The payoff should be in the millions, because the odds against guessing a Tigers under Jim Leyland lineup correctly on any given day are enornmous. This has the added benefit of being a list, which Ron is on record as liking and wanting more of.

    This isn’t a guess, really. It’s what I’d do, and I’ve actually researched it, which is one more reason it will not happen.

    CF Granderson
    2B Polanco
    3B Guillen
    RF Ordonez
    1B Cabrera
    DH Thames
    SS Renteria*
    C Inge
    LF Clevlen

    * If Santiago was available I would start him and put him at #9. I’m tempted to start Hollimon just for spite, but there’s no real game advantage to that.

    Granderson hits Buerhle pretty well. Polanco has a great career BA against him, and this will be the first time he’s faced him in 2008 (as with Granderson). Buerhle’s line from the April start appears dominant, but as far as I can tell from looking at the pitch by pitch, he didn’t dominate Ordonez and Thames, and I expect Magglio to beat on him.

    The key to this game will be keeping Pudge out of the lineup. If he’s in there, Tigers lose. Bank it. Inge can catch 2 games in a row. It’s allowed.

    If it’s someone’s day of rest, Guillen maybe, then I won’t have time to rearrange my lineup before the game. It would nice if they could let you know these things.

  106. Here goes nothing:

    C Rodriguez
    3B Raburn
    DH Guillen
    RF Ordonez
    1B Cabrera
    SS Renteria
    LF Clevlen
    2B Hollimon
    CF Granderson

    And I think I’ve figured out why Larish continues to play. He really makes Sheff seem not so bad, doesn’t he? How many of you thought you’d be rooting for Sheff to get back into the lineup?

  107. I wouldn’t mind Thames batting 3rd. He batted 2nd last time against Buehrle, but Polanco was out.

    I really can spell Buehrle, sometimes.

  108. Please, Ryan, I implore you – NO PUDGE. Inge hits Buerhle better, believe it or not. And if it’s Polanco’s day off (against MB? – gak!), I like Raburn at 2B.

  109. Does anyone know where the starting lineups can be found once they come out just before the game?

  110. Also, Ryan, I would hope it hasn’t come down to Larish vs. Sheffield. There must be less painful alternatives.

  111. I don’t know, Carolyn. They do tend to get posted here pretty quickly, so someone must know.

  112. Sean: Please understand. Not the lineup I want, but what I think I’m gonna get. And of course there are better DH alternatives. We just can’t use them, pursuant to MLB rule 11.5.10 -“DH minimum suck requirements – Tigers”. Believe me, I hate when Sheff and Larish take up valuable Thamesspace, but rules are rules.

  113. You’re right, Ryan. Without rules there would be chaos and anarchy and possibly a Tigers winning season. (sigh)

    I should really go to the Tigers website first before I get my hopes up. Pudge is in there, hopefully not leading off (PLEASE!).

    And Bonine is starting Saturday. That will be cool.

  114. By the way, anyone have an opinion on Hessman vs. Timo for the roster spot I keep telling myself Larish will lose any day now?

  115. Oh, and it would appear that Maggs is DH. Screws my whole plan up. Crap.

  118. Tigers Stat of the Day: Your 2008 Tigers are 27-3 when scoring 5 or more runs in a game. Also, they are 25-6 when outhitting the opponent.

  119. Addendum to previous post: The Tigs are 26-0 when leading after the 8th inning. Also they are 28-0 when leading after the 9th inning.

  120. “Also, they are 25-6 when outhitting the opponent.”

    I brought that stat out a week ago, and got no recognition. The hurt doesn’t show, but the pain still grows. So I’m refusing to acknowledge you on this one.

  121. By the way, here’s the actual lineup for today:

    Renteria, SS
    Polanco, 2B
    Guillen, 3B
    Ordonez, DH
    Cabrera, 1B
    Thames, LF
    Rodriguez, C
    Clevlen, CF
    Raburn, RF

  122. “Your 2008 Tigers are 27-3 when scoring 5 or more runs in a game.”

    I do like that one.

  123. Sean: My bad. I didn’t mean to steal your thunder. Also, I just read that Vance Wilson tore his elbow ligament again. He’s attempting to become the first major leaguer to take 7 years to rehab from Tommy John Surgery.

  125. Carolyn: I got the lineup from Jason Beck’s blog on the official team site…

  126. Beat to the lineup by three minutes. Damn my divided attention.
    Not sure where Chris’s is from, but I got mine off of MLB Gameday.

  128. I was going to bat Renteria leadoff! It’s true! I changed my mind when I saw Granderson’s stats against MB.

    I hate Jim Leyland. He’s ruined my life.

  130. Idle question: Does damning divided attention = dividing damned attention? That’s one of those “commutative” thingys, isn’t it?

  131. I think the stars may be aligned for young Carlos Guillen today. He sports a .358 home batting average this year, and a .331 batting average against White Sox pitching. This is the last time I will pretend that batting average means anything, I promise.

  132. This should be a quick game. Buehrle is the anti-Rafael Betancourt when it comes to tempo. Of course it will slow down when the Tigers torch him for 10 first inning runs.

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