2008 Season, Game Post

Game 67: Dodgers at Tigers

222 Comments

PREGAME: So the Tigers are playing good. We’ve seen this a couple times before where they swept a team, only to slide backwards. What’s different this time is that the Tigers aren’t playing the Twins immediately following said sweep.

The Tigers welcome in the Dodgers and Derek Lowe tonight. The Tigers as a group have pretty limited experience against Lowe, but it hasn’t been good. Lowe has only allowed 6 runs in the 29 innings spanning his last 4 starts. He’s struck out 17 and walked 7 over that time with only 2 homers allowed.

Taking the mound for Detroit is Armando Galarraga. Galarraga defeated the Indians his last time out.

It looks like we’ll have some weather tonight so hopefully they can get this one in amidst the storms.
LAD @ DET, Friday, June 13, 2008 Game Preview – Baseball-Reference.com

POSTGAME: Hey all, it’s a 4 game winning streak. Your 2008 Detroit Tigers first shut out of the year came via Armando Galarraga and Freddy Dolsi. Just like Dave Dombrowski drew it up I’m sure.

  • Galarraga was awesome. Yes, I was the dumb blogger that said he’s the guy that had to come out of the rotation. Just ignore me. The guy has to be in the mix for AL Rookie of the Year.
  • And how ’bout that defense behind him? Marcus Thames makes a sweet play at the fence. And Carlos Guillen was pickin’ it at third base all night.
  • After the Tigers had hit several balls hard, but right at Juan Pierre I mentioned to my buddy Russ that they just need to get one over everyone’s head. Thames obliged with a missile in to the visitors bullpen.
  • Mike Hollimon is still looking for his first hit, but he got that first RBI out of the way with a sac fly.
  • On that weird first inning play with Carlos Guillen, it was actually pretty heads up running. The Dodgers just went unconventional. If Maggs beats out that chopper, and it was going to be close, Guillen would have been safe at home. He got a great jump running. But who expects the opposition to come home with 2 outs.
  • As for the emptying of benches and who the Tigers will drill tomorrow? I don’t see it happening. Not with a rookie on the mound making his debut. Maggs offered up his own payback with a 2 run homer.
  • And I couldn’t let the postgame go by without mentioning Sexy Freddy Solid pitched 2 perfect innings earning a save.

Happy times at the ballpark tonight. If Detroit can get 1 of the next 2 I think you have to call it a successful homestand.

222 thoughts on “Game 67: Dodgers at Tigers”

  1. Who was the last ‘hometown guy’ to pitch against the Tigers? Smoltz faced them in Atlanta, and I think got beat by Verlander. Anyone remember anything at home?
    I am a tad bit worried about Grilli coming back, but first I need to worry about Lowe.

  3. “Rasty Wright, Birmingham, 1890”

    Ah, what a thriving metropolis late-19th century Birmingham must have been…

  7. Dave T, I was at that game in Atlanta you speak of last year…that was Kenny’s first game back from injury and they both pitched great but the Tigers got to Smoltz in the 5th and won. Verlander pitched the next day and won too. They were on fire at that time, they haven’t been as good since.

  8. I was just thinking of that game Chris. They ripped 5 or 6 hits off of Smoltz in a row and ended up with a 5 run inning or something. Ahh, the good ol’ days.

    Anyone have any idea as to a length for the delay?

  10. I have some friends over, Dodger fans at that. I’ll keep the good Beer for us.

  13. By the way, the Smoltz game referred to, I distinctly remember the post-game interview with Smoltz after the Tigers rocked him for five runs in the 5th, and he insisted he was throwing his “best stuff” all year, and the Tigers were just “that good.”

    To reiterate Kevin in Austin, ahh the good ol’ days.

  14. hey Jim nice line up could you find any more guys besides Sheff hitting under .241

  15. Alright I got the DVR working. It has worked the last 3 games. I’m going out tonight. I will be back later to check on the game. Go Tigers!!!

  17. Like me, Marcus must not like the appearance of the bullpen. He almost demolished that wall.

  18. Thames. Myyyy boy. It looked to me like he robbed a homer there. It would have been real close.

  19. Okay, that was a bizarre play. First, why not throw out Maggs at first and be done with it? Then a missed tag . . . nice move by Guillen.

    EDIT: Okay, the tag was made. But still, get the obvious out at first in a force situation and be done with it.

    EDIT 2: I must be missing something, I can’t see Maggs beating out a slow roller barring a bobble by the 3B.

  20. catcher sets up outside calls for outside fastball…Lowe jams Cabrerra….. so much for aiming

  21. I think he did bobble that ball, Jeff. Or at least had a hard time getting it out of his glove. I don’t really understand why Guillen tried for home though. I was hoping we could bank off of that missed call, but it looks like justice has prevailed. Stupid Justice.

  22. what happened to the strike zone that half..he squeeezed Galarrara especially after calling every just outside pitch Lowe threw a strike

  24. Pop up foul ball that basically reaches the seats along the first base line. Guess who gets that ball. I’ll give you one hint: it wasn’t Cabrera.

  25. Why are both Polanco and Renteria sitting down tonight? This guy is a tough pitcher to hit, obviously, and we need all the veteran batters we can get. I understand resting one but not both at the same time. We have 3 rookies in there who are pretty much nothing to count on offensively.

  26. Hey, TV watching, high-speed Internet, fast typing people – how about throwing some play by play out for the poor dial-up crowd (of one?). It’s agony here, man.

  31. Thanks, Sky. I don’t know why Renteria is out. I think he’s got good career numbers against Lowe. An ordinary day of rest, I guess. Maybe they want him back there for when Bonine starts.

  32. Cabrera strikes out on a really bad pitch that fooled him. Seems to be a problem seeing Lowe’s pitches for everyone……..Also, Blue seems to be giving him a more generous zone than he is for Gallaraga..no score after 4

  33. David G – Only I have dial up. Well, me and Rasty Wright. When we die, it’s all over.

  34. When will the Larish era start? Or does it end before it begins…maybe he doesn’t know that when (if) Sheff is healthy then Larish is the odd man out. Get hot soon.
    I’ve watching the strike zone on ESPN Gamecast and it looks generous to Lowe on low, especially inside pitches.

  35. I don’t like this. Good pitchers the last couple days, sure, but if they can put 5 runs on Smoltz with his best stuff. The team’s not THAT different. Minus Shef, plus Cabrera.

  36. Neal, I think the Age Of Larish began in Oakland and ended against Cleveland.

  37. I hate these days where it looks like we are swinging just to swing…lots of lazy balls hit..

  39. Am I being a total homer here or does it seem like Galarraga might actually be a pretty good pitcher, like a middle of the rotation guy?

    I keep waiting for him to have a bad outing, and it really hasn’t happened yet. He’s been consistently good this season. I’m sure its because there isn’t much of a book on the guy yet, but he’s got good stuff. I hope so, because I picked him up on my fantasy team 🙂

    MARCUS!!!!!!!!!!!

  42. Marcus is in my lineup against sinkerball RHP from now on. He’s my everyday LF. Anyone on base for Country Strong?

  43. Chris I agree(and did the same in my league, in picking him up) It just seems that Galarraga is grinding and making sure the Tigers know that he can be and is that good. I predict that he should be Tigers #4 next year with Willis/Miner as your number 5 if the Tigers dont go the FA route to round out the rotation. Galarraga is doing very nicely and hes just been outstanding. Hes every bit as good as Bondo will be the rest of the year I believe.

    But the Playoffs(if we make it) is another story not to sure there….

  44. Some hard hits this inning.maybe they are starting to see the ball..but Granderson is not looking good these days. Way too many strikeouts and he is not hitting the ball decisively like he did. He takes too many called strikes and with 2 strikes he is always in trouble. Shut me up….He just hit a double down left field line!

  45. Vince, you’ve gotta figure Thames sits tomorrow. He’s 31, you know.

  46. We really need a ball to get hit here to score. This has been a problem too often.

    Rookie up in first game of career

  48. Come on Holliman show us that you are ready to step up to the big leagues. Not what I was expecting but a sac fly is a sac fly. You still have a lot to prove but I can see you as our starting SS next year. Nice Job!!

  49. Now Guillen has a chance to add one more. (this is all for Sean —said he has no idea what is happening)

  51. hey Holliman that is better than your first major league hit because none of the /tigers can do what you just did…Sac RBI

  52. Lowe hasn’t walked anybody, but is at 86 pitches now. They are making him work tonight.

  53. Does anyone have a way of calculating how many games we would have won with Thames in line-up instead of Shef? LOL…I can not see how they can go back to the way it was.

  55. Thanks for that Steve in Kzoo….he really has been money so far, each time out.

  56. I appreciate it, Sky. Kinda thin here tonight, harder to pick up just from comments what’s going on.

  58. Leyland says: “Boy, I can’t imagine what it is like to run around the bases after a HR – it must be really tiring. I better sit Marcus tomorrow.”

  59. Ouch. Galarraga hit on the ankle by a liner, looks to be in pain. Hopefully he’s just out of this game and no more games after this . . . he’s gonna give it a go. The risk here is if he favors a leg and hurts his arm or a knee.

  61. Thames is the funk doctor. Greaaaatt. Pierre may have just knocked Armando out of the game by somehow sitting on the 50 mph looping breaking ball. How did he know!?

  63. Ouch on that liner. God I hope Galarraga can stay in. But if not then he better be ok for the rest of the season. Get that ankle treated. Thank god hes still in there. Come on Galarraga dont make me disappointing in you after such high praises. COME ON TIGERS!!!!

    PS to Chris I agree totally a very nice and surprising easy pick up for us in the off season. Who did we trade to get him again???

  64. Sky, I do own a Sheffield vs. Thames Calculator, and the answer is 12. The Tigers would be 41-25 now.

  66. Oh no. Don’t let Armando be hurt. That would suck worse than losing Bonderman.

  67. Thames is damn near the team leader in home runs with a 4th of the plate appearences. What does he have to do, Jimmy? Take away home runs from the other team? Oh yeah, he did that. Snap, Jimmy. Snap.

  69. With the exception of “Walks” Willis blowup game, what is the run of quality starts now, anybody know off hand?

  70. I’m glad you guys filled us in on Armando, good thing he’s okay. ESPN Gamecast showed that as infield hit between home and third but next to the seats in foul territority. Makes sense now.

  71. Sheffield vs. Thames? Sheff has created 15.5 runs in 161 plate appearances while using 107 outs. Thames has created 16.7 runs in 113 plate appearances while using 78 outs. If he had all of Sheff’s outs he’d have created 22.9 runs, or about 7.4 more runs than Sheff had. That’s a bit less than a win. 2 wins over a full season.

    Now of course they were in the lineup together on several occasions, so that’s oversimplifying, but it’s in that ballpark. While Sheffield has struggled, because of his walks he’s not been as damaging as some others. He’s actually slightly more productive than Pudge, for instance, as far as runs created per game.

  73. Sorry, Neal. I got the last one before Jimmy bought the company that makes it. He destroyed the inventory and deleted all patent documents.

  74. Sean,

    Cabrera with a one out double right after Maggs hit a ball to the track that everyone thought was gone. Mario was elevating his voice and everything.

  75. Jeff, don’t bring me down with facts now. We get enough of that from Billfer.

  77. Jeff:

    Then, that’s the answer. When Shef comes back, Pudge is out and Shef is our new Catcher.

    What, everyone else is learning a new position! 🙂

  78. I think the league has figured out how to get Larish out,,,you have to pitch the ball to him…

  79. The funk doctor? Does that mean his HRs are “Funk Blasts?” I thought only Mariners hit Funk Blasts.

  81. Thanks, Ken. Getting to be a pattern, this long out by Maggs and extra base hit from Gil thing. I like it. Could be better, but I like it.

  83. The funk doctor put so much funk on that ball that it squibbed off the first baseman’s glove to score the run.

  84. Oops, I just have Gamecast. All I saw was the “in play, runs scored” message and got too excited. Either way, it’s a run scored.

  86. That wasn’t lame, Joel. Anything that helps to perpetuate the doctor’s popularity is totally awesome.

  87. I am sooooooooooooooooooooooo relieved that Miner is available if needed. Aren’t you all?

  88. Was it a funk blast to 1B? I’m still proud of Marcus. 3-0? Or are we up to 4-0 yet?

  89. Armando seems to be able to throw strikes as needed. Has gone 2-0 on several then come back to get them.

  90. Every time I think Galarraga is wearing down and falling behind, he starts throwing strikes. Given the Lakers’ problems, maybe Armando can replace Phil Jackson as the new Zen Master.

  91. Steve in Kzoo….I THINK we got him from Texas. Not sure if it was a trade or if he was a free agent. I looked on the Detroit Tigers Weblog to see, but Bilfer doesn’t even have the Medium Cat on the organizational tree page. Way to go Bilfer (j/k).

  92. Sean C,

    Just so you know, I’m in no way trying to replace the “Country Strong” nickname that you like to use for Thames. I’m just trying to trump it. Country Strong reminds me too much of Big Country Bryant Reeves from the expansion Memphis Grizzlies. That guy was a dbag.

  94. 7 innings 100 pitches… does Armando pitch the 8th, or does Lucky Strikes play with fire?

  99. Tiger preseason Media guide
    Gallaraga Pitched in Okl AA last year in the Texas league until Sep call up date by Texas Rangers
    was traded to Detroit For Micheal Hernandez in Feb 08

  100. I’m here SKy, and thanks. Did AG sit ’em down again?

    Ken, I know you’re a fan of the Country Doctor and his brand of strong funky medicine just like I am, so maybe we can compromise.

  104. Good (Raburn 2B). He’s got some work to do to get out of our doghouse.

  105. Sean, I like the compromise idea but can we go with Country Funk, M.D.?

  106. Well, Sean..Grandy struck out again and Hollimon looked bad, too. As I said before, I do not really understand resting both Polanco and Renteria the same day. We now have 4 rookies in this line-up.

  107. Raybun might be feeling the “Am I next to Toledo syndrome” and maybe he is starting to actually hit..at least he is peeking out of the dog house but definately still inside

  110. for some reason I don’t feel comfortable yet. Mow’em down and erase that, Freddy.

  113. Country Funk, MD it is, Ken. Country Funk is actually pretty damn cool. I foresee a new genre of music by this name – just wait. There WAS country punk, after all.

    Sky, looking at the rest of the Tigers lineup, I have no problem with 4 rookies. Some teams would kill just to have Guillen-Ordonez-Cabrera and fill the rest of their lineup with garbage.

  114. If Dolsi gets sent down then I gotta think that Bautista will be on a short leash. Cause although they are now talking about it being “unfair” to keep sending Dolsi out in these situations it also builds confidence bordering on cockiness, which is not a bad thing for a setup guy.

  117. Sean just so that “garbage” does good enough to keep Shef out of there I am fine with them…at least they play hard..

  118. I live down the road from the Angels and Dodgers. Going to see the Tigers in San Diego next week I think. The Dodger announcers are really hurting, but they are not obnoxious like Harrleson.

  119. Dolsi can be a rocky ride. Pretty sure he’s headed down Toledo way. Not sure I want that, but maybe I will after this inning.

  120. judpma – Don’t misunderstand. I’m not saying the Tiger rookies are garbage.

  123. Dolsi gets it done. I’ve been thinking Bautista is the odd man out. He’s still too wild.

  131. haha! Oh my goodness. Miggy’s stare at Wade nearly had me in tears. He was ready to do the dirty work for his Maracay buddy.

    And. Magglio!

  135. Yeah, Sean. The bullpens emptied and everything after Guillen got hit. Miggy had the priceless rumble face.

  137. Awesome! You guys have got to give me some detail later on all this stuff here (Gullen HBP, etc.)

  140. David G – good list. Here are my top 5 off the top of my head (in no particular order)

    Big Papi
    Jim Thome (he just looks like he’s old man strong, kinda like your dad always can beat you up, regardless of size or age)
    Milton Bradley (he’ll do whatever it takes to win)
    Josh Hamilton (dude is just sick)
    Adam Dunn

    Honorable mention – Ryan Howard, but he looks like a sweet guy.

  141. the only thing about the HR that would have been sweeter would be to stare that loudmouth pitcher down all the way around the bases….Mags has too much class for that …I would have done that but I can’t hit a home run…some things never work out

  142. No, Sky, I didn’t see. No TV. If you guys describe, I get to see it in my mind’s eye.

  145. Larish probably goes down when the Tigs hit the left coast – no use for a DH then.

  146. I’ve got a real good feeling about this Tigers team all of a sudden. I’m climbing back up the fence from my spot just within the pessimist compound.

  148. Was thinking the same thing about a stare down…downside is that it insures the next games in the series are a bloodbath when they needn’t be…and in fairness guillen should have walked his ass to first

  151. Jeff Kent has been known to hit 5-run homers in his day…Careful, Freddy.

  153. Well, it has been nice for 4 days now. It should last as we play this lowly NL. Let us hope.the real challenge is when we are back in the division.

  154. Six up, six down for the save…

    that is new…

    that is sexy…

    Freddy Solid is the New Sexy!

  155. You know Sean C, if you go to MLB.com, it will detect that you are on dial-up, and you can follow the game using a simplified gamecast specifically for slow download speeds.

  157. I am wonding if Dolsi pitching the 9th like that indicates that Rodney might be coming up tomorrow and Dolsi down.

  158. Larish would be going down one way or t’other when Sheffield gets back. He’s a trade anyway, never going to play for the Tigers.

    Come on Dolsi.

  159. nice win…keep it going ….best thing was they didn’t score 10 so there might be some in the works for tomorrow…and Gallaraga was on tonight…the drop slider splitter what ever it was was wicked …

  161. Sean, in bottom of 8th Guillen got HBP and the benches emptied, He had already been seen in the same AB by trainer for apparently hurting self on a swing. So the HBP seemed suspicious. Anyway, after they all settled down, Mags comes up and parks it to left.

  162. Someone tomorrow on the Dodgers will get a close pitch at some point…under the chin…..I suspect.

  163. Kevin

    Thanks, but it’s not that I lack for options. I just find them unsatisfactory, because they’re too damn slow, The best I can really do is by following a scoreboard transcript, which isn’t so slow (though inexplicable pauses happen). The problem there is how behind real time it is. I see something good/bad and want to celebrate/complain, come over to DTW and see that it’s already an inning later and everyone is talking about something else.

    So… that’s I why I beg for play by play (or something like it, updates at least) here. Nothing like accounts from fellow fans.

  164. David G, I think Dolsi pitching the 9th only indicates that it wasn’t a Jones situation score-wise.

  166. Good thing we sent Willis down… if Leyland asked him to throw at somebody, he might throw a strike instead.

  167. Sean —-on Guillen—-on his way very slowly toward first base with the Dodger catcher between him and the pitcher…the young pitch(don’t know his name) starts popping off at Guillen for not running to first after he drilled..himmmm then Van Slyke walks Guillen to firs aand talks to him …..Guillen stays cool ….Mags did the rest with his shot

  168. Thanks for the detail, Sky. So we have some bad blood between the teams. Sweet! As someone mentioned about Sheffield and D, Cabrera last year….

    Could be the start of something BIG.

  170. judpma

    Thanks. But I thought the bullpens emptied and everything. Sounded like Miggy was ready to pop someoene – or was it just glaring menacingly? Man, I hope there’s a picture somewhere later. Post a link, anyone, if there is. Hockey and baseball, the best of both worlds!

  171. Yeah, David, I wasn’t saying Rodney isn’t coming up, for he surely is, and I’m looking forward to it.

  173. Speaking of the HBP games teams play, I can’t see the Tigers asking Bonine to drill someone. Just throw strikes, kid. Miner can hit someone later,

  174. Gallaraga and Dolsi combine for the first shut out of the season. Two guys who didn’t even start the year on the big league roster!

    For all the tough breaks this team has had this year, Gallaraga has been a minor miracle to offset some of the bad.

  175. judpma – i think ESPN is indeed going to show some of the brouhaha. they just had a teaser of it on the way to commercial.

    UPDATE: yeah they showed it. fun to see gil and pudge with that look in their eye!

  176. “Two guys who didn’t even start the year on the big league roster!”

    Good point, Ryan.

    Speaking of Galarraga, I’m not getting the great fear that his low BAbip is inspiring. So there’s going to be regression to the mean. So he’s going to give up more hits on balls in play over time. Does that necessarily mean he’s going to get rocked?

    Reading over the pitch by pitch play by play for Dolsi, it reads like that of one Todd Jones. Gets behind in the count, makes you nervous, then the batter grounds out or flies out. Maybe Dolsi isn’t the New Sexy, but the New Jonesy. Zumaya can remain the set-up guy.

    Raburn was the hitting machine tonight. Nice.

  177. Unfortunately, they didn’t show Gil’s (I have to jump on the nickname bandwagon) face. He was the first to come storming up the dugout stairs, but he immediately stopped in place after ascending them. He stood calm and collected, and his face was completely expressionless, save for his mouth being slightly open. He was intensely scanning the surroundings with a look of pure observance.

  178. Check out tiff’s predictions for this game in the Game 66 thread. Not bad! Psychicness is going around.

  179. I want everyone to know that I called 6 of 9 batting order positions correctly. Pret-ty good for a dope like me. How did I do it? Well, kids, let me explain.

    With no advance intelligence, I had a hunch Hollimon was due for a start. I also foresaw wanting 3 lefties at the top of the order. I saw the Tigers wanting Rodriguez behind the plate for Bonine’s start, meaning Inge was in. Inge was #8 because I saw a rookie at #9, though I was wrong on that last.

    I blew the positions with hunches. I thought they’d finally put Larish at 1B and give Gil a game to think about HRs and nothing else. I also saw Hollimon in for Polanco, not Renteria. I didn’t see Raburn in there at all, so hats off to Leyland. He might know things I don’t, hard telling. Thames was a surprise, but now I know better. Makes me wonder why he hasn’t gotten more starts against RHP all along.

    A question – why didn’t Galarraga go 9 or at least 8? Did he hit the pitch count wall?

  180. Brian P

    Your testimony contradicts that of earlier witnesses. Now i don’t know who to believe. Did Gil’s intense glare come later? Or did I misunderstand? Was Magglio the Glaring Man?

  181. Is Guillen shouting at the pitcher part of that “fiery latin temper” that Ozzie Guillen once talked about?

    Good win. 6 our of 7. I don’t know what to think.

    P.S. Good call by Tiff on saying Mike Hollimon would get his first RBI against the Dodgers tonight in the last game thread. Impressive.

  182. Does anyone know what Wade said to Guillen and whether Carlos said anything back? And what’s this about a visit from the trainer earlier in the at bat? Did that upset Wade or the Dodgers somehow?

    I wonder if Wade said something about hemmorhoids.

  183. Hey guys – are there any CBA studs out there? Specifically when it comes to arbitration? I’ve got a question for you.

  184. Back from the game, my first of the season and I’ve already matched my win total from ’07.

    That was fun – a little of everything. My first thought about the Guillen HBP was that they nailed him because they were cheesed about him getting out of the pickle earlier in the game. A litle too bush league maybe.

    From my seat, I didn’t notice Cabrera at all but Pudge certainly ran out of the dugout in a hurry and loked ready to roll. The bullpens coming out was hilarious. They both kind of nonchalantly sauntered out on the field, clearly not wanting any piece of the action.

    Great all around performnce from the Tigers, outstanding pitching, defense and enough offense to get it done. And of course Raburn delivers after I knocked him a bit yesterday. ice to have a legit win streak going!

  185. ‘They both kind of nonchalantly sauntered out on the field, clearly not wanting any piece of the action.’

    Ha1 That’s funny. Going through the motions. Yeah, yeah, gotta support the team, whatever.

  186. Tiff really went out on the limb and is now a full-fledged member of the DTW psychic network. Really impressive!

  187. Sean: Carlos hurt his wrist in swinging at the first pitch from Wade. He stayed out of the box for a while. I only saw the HBP live on tv and didn’t catch a replay (got distracted) so take this for what it’s worth, but I doubt it was intentional — especially with it still being just a 3-0 game (I think). I believe Rod Allen mentioned that Wade basically told him to just go down to first base and Guillen probably took offense to that.

    Kevin in Austin: I’m not a Collective Bargaining expert, but I can try to help/maybe find the answer to whatever your question is, so shoot.

  189. a) Player A deliberately inflicts physical harm on Player B

    b) Player B hits a Home Run

    c) Somehow certain people see action ‘b’ as payback.

    c) I say ‘huh’?

    How that notion started is peculiar to say the least. Payback is reciprocating, inflicting physical harm on the pitcher. Nothing more cowardly than a Pitcher intentionally throwing at hitters and expecting the hitter to do absolutely nothing but what he’s up there to do anyway(hit the ball).

    They better retaliate this series, or it will be open season on the Tigers when word gets out you can throw at them and they’ll do absolutely nothing in response.

    Having said that, this is good. Glad to see some fire for the Tigs, and in particular, Guillen!

  190. Mike R – what’s your email? Or alternatively, feel free to email me at kmvela @ yahoo (no spaces, just in there in case any spambots are scanning the forum). Thanks.

  191. I don’t think it was intentional. Like I said, I missed the replay so maybe I’m way off base, but I don’t think Wade is going to throw 4 other pitches after Guillen took forever to get back into the box while the Dodgers were only down 3 at the time. Unintentional HBP = doesn’t need retaliation.

    And what does the word getting out so other teams “throw at” the Tigers do? Just put runners on base for a team who’s got hitters heating up(Miggy)/already on fire (Polanco/Magglio/Guillen).

  193. Mike R – didn’t see the game, but I did just watch the replay of the bottom of the 8th. I really don’t know if it was intentional, but taking a wild guess, I’d say at least 60/40 it was, Guillen had just exited the box with a wrist/hand problem.

    In any event, the way that punk Wade acted afterwards, jawing at Guillen when he should have been either silent or apologetic, at that point he lost all ‘benefit of the doubt’ right there.

    Mike R wrote:

    And what does the word getting out so other teams “throw at” the Tigers do? Just put runners on base for a team who’s got hitters heating up(Miggy)/already on fire (Polanco/Magglio/Guillen).

    unquote.

    That one word ‘just’ makes makes this incorrect. It does a number of things, but most importantly, it also puts you on the DL and/or makes you a less ineffective hitter because you end up playing dinged up/hurt.

    If you don’t believe me, just ask Rickie Weeks, Derek Jeter, or, most recently Alfonso Soriano. Yes, Soriano got on base, but the effects of that HBP go much deeper than that for the Cubbies.

  194. It won’t let me edit my post….

    meant to say ‘less effective’

    ….its getting late.

  195. Thanks. Mike R.

    Greg, Wade says it wasn’t intentional, which makes sense given the game situation, and Leyland and Guillen agree. As far as payback goes – it’s a fan thing in this case.

    a) Their guy hurts our guy.

    b) Their guy is a BAD guy, and we loathe him.

    c) Our next guy hits a HR.

    d) Payback! We made their bad guy cry and regret hurting our guy.

    It must be extra satisfying, though, to hit a 2-run HR off a guy who just mouthed off (if only by gesture) to your teammate after hitting him with a pitch. That’s not hard to understand.

  196. Rapada down to Toledo? But why?

    I’m worried about Galarraga’s ankle.

    I think Carlos gets tomorrow off. Nothing to do with the HBP.

  197. Soriano is on the DL because he completely was terrible in his attempt to get out of the way of the baseball. You don’t turn your front side towards 3rd base like he did. He exposed his hands and I am still stunned that major league hitters still get out of the way of the ball by opening up rather than closing their front shoulder and taking it in the back.

    obviously if someone breaks something on an HBP, that’s a terrible situation. But how many times have there been pitchers deliberately throwing, repeatedly, at a team because they didn’t “stand up for themselves?” Rarely. If ever. Save for Roger Clemens going roid-rage on Mike Piazza.

    Not to mention that all of these players are part of the same union and many of them are friends — especially latin players from the same country. Baseball (and all sports) have changed and there’s much more respect for everyone in the game — especially in baseball with their 8000000000 unwritten rules and ‘ethics’. I just think word getting out that the Tigers ‘don’t defend themselves’ wouldn’t spark a plethora of high and tight ones simply because teams can do so without repercussions.

  198. Good win tonight for the Tigers. I’ll be extremely upset if Dolsi gets sent down when Rodney and Zumaya come back. I say that Bautista should go down, he honestly hasn’t impressed too much. He’s like a Dolsi without the “closer-like stare” and the youth. Also, Rapada or Seay could be pretty easily called down. If I had my way, our new bullpen would be Fossum, Miner, Rapada, Dolsi, Zumaya, Rodney, Jones. That’s assuming JL will go back to carrying 12 pitchers, like he did out of spring training.

  199. Of course Wade is going to say that. I wouldn’t expect him to say ‘I was trying to drill him’ unless he desires to get suspended.

    Was his intent to actually hit Guillen? Probably not, that’s not what I meant. But he was throwing AT him(probably, as I said, 60-40) in on his hands, expecting him to get out of the way, making him extra uncomfortable that AB given his hand situation. Game situation supports that he was throwing AT him(1-2 count) IMHO.

    As far as the payback, sorry, I just don’t get it. Of course you feel good hitting the HR, but even? Not even close, not even 1% ‘even’.

  201. AP account:

    “The ball just slipped,” said Wade. “I wouldn’t throw at a batter when were down by three runs.”

    Wade pointed to first after hitting Guillen, and then “everything broke loose,” Wade said.

    Neither Guillen nor Leyland thought Wade threw at Guillen, but both said things escalated because of Wade’s gestures.

  202. I wouldn’t want to put a retaliation beaning on Bonine’s shoulder’s tomorrow, but when someone comes out of the pen, why not? Throw one at the hip.

    Also, your New Sexy (what a bad nickname) threw as many balls as he did strikes tonight. His WHIP sucks (1.41) and he doesn’t strike out many (but, to his credit, he seems to be able to get one when he needs one). I’m all for riding this guy until he isn’t effective any more, but he’s no replacement for Zumaya or Rodney.

  203. Mike R. wrote:

    Soriano is on the DL because he completely was terrible in his attempt to get out of the way of the baseball.

    unquote

    ooook, so the pitcher throwing at him had nothing to do with that. If you want to believe that, go right ahead.

    Mike R. –

    But how many times have there been pitchers deliberately throwing, repeatedly, at a team because they didn’t “stand up for themselves?” Rarely. If ever.

    unquote

    Pitchers do, repeatedly, ‘throw inside’ more often when there’s no fear of consequence. I’ve lost count of how many times certain pitchers have been criticized because they started ‘throwing inside less’ after someone charged them.

  205. Make of that what you will, Greg.

    I’ll try one more time to make you understand payback. It’s just a possible interpretation from a fan’s viewpoint. Guillen took first because he was hit. He scored on Magglio’s home run. Thus, Wade had additional cause to regret his “mistake” – or his (no quotation marks) mistake. The HBP added an additional run to the HR. Damage to Tigers? Zero. Damage to Dodgers? 2 runs. HBP becomes the equivalent of 4 HBPs. Good return. We feel good, and Guillen is not hurt.

    In any other sense, there is no payback, unless Guillen takes a baseball and throws it at Wade and hits him. But that won’t work, either, as Guillen will ejected, suspended, and fined.

    It sounds like you’re saying that hitting a batter by throwing AT him even when not trying to hurt him is a horrible crime that can’t possibly be avenged. I don’t know. It’s just a pitching strategy that’s part of the game that batters have to be prepared for. I’d say more injuries have been caused by balls that just got away rather than by deliberate aiming to hurt. But I’ve never been a ballplayer, so what do I know?

  206. Eric

    ‘he’s no replacement for Zumaya or Rodney.’

    No, but he could be a replacement for Jones.

  207. Sean wrote:

    It sounds like you’re saying that hitting a batter by throwing AT him even when not trying to hurt him is a horrible crime that can’t possibly be avenged.

    Let’s not exaggerate here, ‘horrible crime’ no, an act that deserves reciprocation? Absolutely. You drill our guy, if I’m CERTAIN it was an accident. Ok. If not, one of your guys gets drilled. Even. In the NL, this should always be the offending pitcher if possible.

    Sean wrote:

    It’s just a pitching strategy that’s part of the game that batters have to be prepared for.

    unquote

    Rule 8.02 – Throwing at the Batter

    Rule 8.02 states as follows:

    (d) The pitcher shall not intentionally pitch at the batter.

    Despite this rule, unfortunately, you are correct that many use it as a strategy. It is a strategy that pitchers use to compensate when they don’t have adequate stuff to get batters out with their stuff alone. Yes, batters have to be prepared for it, just as pitchers have to be prepared for the consequences of their actions.

  208. We haven’t lost since since the moon was in phase Waxing Gibbous at 61% illumination. It is now at 84% illumination and will go into the full moon cycle next. This bodes very well for the immediate future of the team, as it is obvious that they play better as the moon light increases. As for the day games and cloudy nights, the psychic fans can handle those.

  210. God, you have to empathize with the Rangers’ GM over the gift of Armondo Galarraga to the Tigers. Obviously, nobody knew he was going to be this good. But a team like the Rangers, with awesome offense and awful pitching, could be a wildcard contender with just a bit more good arms.

  212. I’m glad to see we got a control pitcher going today. Hopefully, we can give him some early run support so he can feel more comfortable out on the mound.

  213. Today’s lineup guess doesn’t even qualify as a guess, it’s so wild. It’s more like a suggestion.

    SS Renteria
    2B Polanco
    1B Cabrera
    RF Ordonez
    LF Thames
    CF Granderson
    C Rodriguez
    DH Larish
    3B Inge

    Maybe I shouldn’t give Carlos Guillen the day off, but I think he’s due for one, and might want to rest that wrist for a day. I don’t even want Larish in there – I want Raburn instead. But would they put up only one LHB against a RHP? Probably not.

    Renteria and Cabrera know Penny and hit him very well, so I want them up early and often. RHB slug well against Penny – the big difference seems to be that he walks a lot more LHB. But what LHB do the Tigers have who walks a lot? Only one. OK, I’ve changed my mind, Carlos has to play.

    SS Renteria
    2B Polanco
    1B Cabrera
    RF Ordonez
    DH Guillen
    LF Thames
    CF Granderson
    C Rodriguez
    3B Inge

  214. Ron, hopefully our control pitcher will have good control today. You’ve got to figure that the Dodgers are anxious, having gone at least 18 innings without a run now, so maybe Bonine can take advantage of that.

    How is Bonine’s name pronounced, anyway? I mean his last name. I think I can handle the first name.

  215. Bonine is pronounced bow-nine (long O). As Samara already pointed out, it rhymes with bovine, but it always made me think of canine.

    Also, let’s see if this works: Cabrera’s Stare

  216. I noticed Brad Penny’s BA against on the first pitch was .400. I didn’t know what to make of that, so I looked at the Tigers starters to get some idea of what “normal” might be.

    Robertson .229, Galarraga .235, Verlander .235, Bobderman .351, Rogers .379.

    So we might see the Tigers swinging away and people complaining about it, at least until the Tigers have some success with it, which I predict will be by the 1st or 2nd inning. Despite recent struggles at the plate until mid or late game.

  217. Brian, thanks for the link – it worked. Not quite menacing, but certainly the look of a man contemplating possible action.

    If Eddie is good, we can call him Eddie Canine. If not, then it’s Eddie Bovine. Nothing against cows, but they haven’t shown me they can pitch.

  221. for the record, I made lots of accurate predictions for the Saturday afternoon affair, I just was away from the computer to note them in writing.

    I hope Hollimon is back in the game Sunday!

  222. tiff

    “for the record, I made lots of accurate predictions for the Saturday afternoon affair, I just was away from the computer to note them in writing.”

    Good one. I had an elaborate response in mind, but I’ll let it go at this.

    Your Friday prediction was really good, though. No joke.

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