Pudge Rodriguez for Kyle Farnsworth? My first reaction was, and who else did the Tigers get? Rodriguez is having a fine season, and there are teams that are really looking for catching help. Besides the Yankees, the Marlins had also inquired and were turned away. In other words it was kind of a sellers market for the Tigers. If he was going to get moved I anticipated it would be for prospects, or something better than the 2 draft picks they would have secured had Pudge declined arbitration. When the return was a non-elite relief pitcher I actually felt ill. After a few moments of reflection though I feel a little less queasy.
Brandon Inge becomes the full time catcher now and he has an of .758 this season (I was actually surprised to see it was that high). Meanwhile Pudge carries a .755 OPS, but with a .295 average. On a starter perspective it’s surprisingly a push. Of course catching depth has been obliterated and there is a huge drop off when the back-up – presumably Dane Sardinha – enters the game. There’s also the issue of whether or not Inge can hit while catching.
As for Farnsworth the Tigers needed bullpen help and he’s having a nice season with a 8.73 K/9, a 3.45 BB/9 (still not that great). But the guy has allowed 11 HOME RUNS THIS YEAR. His 3.65 ERA is buoyed by a 94% LOB rate – far higher than at anytime in his career.
In terms of the other elements of the trade, both players are free agents at the end of the year. Pudge Rodriguez was going to be a Type A free agent meaning he’d bring back 2 draft picks. Farnsworth was a Type B last year, and would likely be one again this year meaning they’ll get 1 draft pick. So they give up a draft pick in this deal presuming both players were to get offered arbitration and declined. The Tigers save a couple million in the process as Pudge was out earning Farnsworth by about $7 million this year.
Farnsworth kind of fills a need, but not that well. The Tigers don’t take a huge hit in terms of production and aren’t giving up on the season. But my issue is that I think the Tigers could have done better for Pudge. He’s having a good year at a hard to fill position. Factor in the loss of a draft pick and it’s not good. No young player coming back? Not awful, but Dave Dombrowski failed to maximize Pudge’s value. Yankees win this one easy.
In defense of Farnsy,
Prior to Monday, he hadn’t given up a homer in over a month and had only given up a pair of hits over his prior ten appearances. Those two hits came in his last appearance before Monday. Hopefully he’s settled down some. He gets Ks, rarely walks people, and he certainly pitched well enough here in 2005.
I, too, kept waiting to see who else was coming along in the trade though.
>> But the guy has allowed 11 HOME RUNS THIS YEAR. His 3.65 ERA is buoyed by a 94% LOB rate – far higher than at anytime in his career <<
Perfect organizational fit. It’s important to preserve the culture of the relief corps
the last time the Tigers had Farnsworth they couldn’t sign him and he bolted. what makes them think he won;’t do it again…the pitching staff will miss Pudge the most…his experience cannot be replaced…
Lynn Henning, today
Tigers a smart bet to be quiet at deadline
A gut feeling throughout July’s shopping bazaar known as the non-waiver trade deadline is that the Tigers’ deals would be summed up accordingly:
Nothing.
This was more or less confirmed Tuesday when Dave Dombrowski, the Tigers president and general manager, was asked if he anticipated Detroit dealing for short-term, or long-haul, help ahead of Thursday’s deadline.
“I do not know what will happen,” Dombrowski said. “But we continue to talk with clubs to have a feel about what will be taking place.”
Although Dombrowski obviously and intentionally offered not a shred of insight there, it’s highly unlikely the Tigers will do anything remotely close to significant ahead of Thursday’s 4 p.m. deadline, for a couple of reasons.
Fire sale! Who else can we unload!?
Billfer is spot on with this take. The Tigers should have gotten more out of this, and that’s w/o having mentioned that Pudge has been the face of the franchise the past few years.
The only thing I don’t agree with 100% is Inge’s hitting being effected by the position he plays. I’ve never bought in to that theory.
What I’ve heard about Farnsworth, he’s just not that likable.
Did Pudge skip the optional batting practice on Tuesday?
You don’t help out rivals, you take them to the cleaners. They couldn’t even get the Yankees to throw in Hawkins plus Farnsworth plus a decent prospect?
The Yankees were the team that faced a desperate situation, not the Tigers, yet the Tigers were the team who panicked.
And who says the team will like this? They fell apart after the Farnsworth trade in 2005, thinking that Dombrowski had given up on the season. Who says they won’t do that again?
Anything short of a playoff spot (with Farnsworth blowing away everyone like he’s Papelbon) and this trade is a miserable failure.
After cleaning the vomit out of my mouth, I’ve finally started to view this all rationally. And I agree with the sentiments of most of y’all. Could’ve/should’ve gotten more. Inge will be a suitable replacement for 2 months so that’s OK. Farnsworth weakens an already atrocious bullpen. I don’t really know what DD was thinking here. Jimmy Gobble wasn’t available?
According to New York radio, Pudge had a no-trade clause and he waived it to go to the Yanks.
Still, just on his “name” alone should have at least been able to net a prospect, too.
While I don’t buy the idea that Inge’s hitting will vary with where he plays, I do buy the idea that catchers need more rest than other players.
It’s no coincidence that Pudge’s batting got a lot better when he started getting a lot of days off. Inge won’t be getting a lot of days off, and when he does he’ll be replaced by a minor leaguer.
I expect the hitting production from the catcher’s spot to stagnate if not get worse — and by production I mean OPS, not BA. Yes, Pudge and Inge had similar OPS this year, but when you look at what Pudge was doing once he started getting regular rest, there’s no comparison.
And, again, if you were going to make this move, do it with a team in the other league, not with a team with whom you’re competing for a playoff spot.
EDIT: And, by the way, speaking of not getting days off, Guillen won’t be getting too many days off or days at the DH spot. So that’s one more guy getting less rest (not just Inge).
Chris: I don’t see how Farnsworth weakens the bullpen, as he will probably replace Jones or Dolsi.
Dave: He’ll weaken the bullpen by getting lit up like a Roman Candle every time he’s called upon. I’d rather have Jason Grilli to be honest. Dude does not respond to pressure very well. Case in point the 2005 NLDS with Atlanta.
“While I don’t buy the idea that Inge’s hitting will vary with where he plays, I do buy the idea that catchers need more rest than other players.
It’s no coincidence that Pudge’s batting got a lot better when he started getting a lot of days off. Inge won’t be getting a lot of days off, and when he does he’ll be replaced by a minor leaguer.”
Good point. I’d agree with that.
judpma: “the pitching staff will miss Pudge the most…his experience cannot be replaced”
Interestingly, the starting pitchers have pitched better with Pudge behind the plate than Inge (excepting Bonderman). And the relief pitchers have pitched far better when Inge is behind the plate.
If there is any meaning beyond statistical coincidence in this I would wonder -does Pudge tire in late innings, and does that effect how he handles the pitchers? (he has more errors in innings 7-9 than 1-6). Is Inge–having been a closer in college–more in tune with the relief pitcher mentality?
Chris: …which is exactly what Jones and Dolsi have been doing. Even in your worst case scenario, it’s a wash.
I think it’s very good trade for the Tigers.
Pudge wasn’t very good as a full-time catcher anymore and NY will find that out. Pudge was much better when he was splitting time with Inge though.
In other words, we traded a part-time catcher for a much needed closer.
Farnsworth started the season slow, but he has been great for the Yankees in the past month or so.
I like it how ESPN said: New York traded Kyle Farnsworth for 14-time All-Star catcher Pudge Rodriguez, who was splitting time with Brandon Inge in Detroit.
Making it sound like we just had two catchers of equal value laying around and Pudge was just an extra part we could get rid of.
One can argue OPS equivalence for Inge, but it seems he has a mental block in regard to hitting while catching. While an occasional HR is nice, I’ll take a BA point over a slugging or OBP point. Inge’s offensive upside is not on Pudge’s level. This is a downgrade offensively for sure and defensively as well (though I have no statistical data to prove that, Pudge has a well-earned rep.)
Farnsworth is fine. He’s a capable pitcher and a decent addition, but how much more does he give you than Rapada or even Denny Bautista, who we gave away.
The bottom line is the Yankees gain WAY more from this deal than the tigers. DD has not used his assets efficiently. A rare blunder it seems to me.
This trade is inexplicable.
1) you are helping your competitor fill a hole, while subsequently creating one of your own. Inge is not an upgrade over pudge.
2) If the Robertson-Laird deal is legit (Chris? Anything?), you fill the catching hole but then plan to run ….??? out there to pitch in his spot? D-Train? Yikes.
3) If you knew you could get Laird and were comfortable having Willis (or some other) in your rotation, is Farnsworth the best reliever you could have gotten for pudge? Especially when the entire planet knows Florida is interested in pudge? No chance for a 3-team deal here?
If the plan is to run Inge and Sardinha out there, then, I dunno, we’re just…. ugh.
So who drops off the roster when Sardina is called up? Jones released??
I pretty much agree with Bilfer. I don’t see how Farnsworth is better than 2 draft picks unless they really thought Pudge would accept arb, or if this isn’t the last move that will be made. Maybe the money saved will go to a starter. Maybe they’re clearing the decks and this was just the start.
It makes me really wonder what the Marlins had offered for Pudge, could it really have been worse than Farnsworth?
Mark:
The Robertson/Laird trade was idle speculation. I’m glad I’m not the only one who fell for it, though.
Also, this is not an indication that it’s a fire sale. Fire sale means you trade pudge to the Marlins for prospects. There better be more to come.
As a Yankee fan all I can say is:
THANK YOU, DETROIT!!!!!!
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/30/cashman-we-want-to-cross-the-finish-line/#comment-465301
Yeah instead of getting some prospects or draft picks we gave Pudge away for a guy that can walk at the end of the year. How is that not the first step of a firesale?
my first thought was are the tigers giving up? WTF IS THIS DEAL?
i thought inge didnt even want to catch!? (obviously they ‘force’ him but comeon)
Mark: That was pure speculation (the Robertson/Laird deal). I really wouldn’t be surprised if they did make a deal for a catcher before tomorrow’s deadline, though. As far as this deal, in the immediate future I see them losing tonight. I think that the team will no doubt be deflated losing a well respected member of the clubhouse for a flaming a-hole who has a history of not getting along with anyone. Oh well. I don’t think this is going to hurt or help all that much, I just feel like someone stole my wallet.
Pudge was going to split alot of time with Inge, so we traded away a part time player along with saving $6m. Pudge has a no trade clause, thus making it harder to make a deal for him.
I think we caught the Yankees in a panic situation where they felt they had to make a move to replace Posada and we got an average reliever for him.
Sounds to me, the Yankees along with other people over value Pudge.
We traded a part time, over paid catcher for an average (to maybe above average) reliever. Sounds like a good deal to me.
Mat “This is a downgrade offensively for sure and defensively as well (though I have no statistical data to prove that, Pudge has a well-earned rep”
I would agree also. I think Inge has an above-average arm, yet gives up more SB than Pudge. He seems to let more pitches past him than Pudge. He is great at fielding bunts, but Pudge is one of the best ever. And I would put both Pudge and Inge in the top 3 at fielding pop-ups, and I’m not sure who the 3rd would be.
I honestly am wishing for a firesale, just as long as Verlander, Grandy and Miggy arent on the block… oh wait no one else is worth anything at least using the value scale we used in the pudge trade.
I also agree with Bilfer. The Tigers panicked because they did not see Rodney as a solution to the closer position. Jonesy was out, so they looked for a solution. I do not like the fact that you have several guys who are currently on the roster who are for the most part not active. Jones, Zumuya (injury)you can add more. Sheffield next.
There will also be issues with Inge and Guillen. You have to have a backup to catch which will send one of the bullpen players down to make room. I hope Rayburn/Santiago can play 3rd to give Guillen some days off with Inge behind the plate. There has also been talk of Pudge being a cancer in the clubhouse. Hopefully he can take that cancer to the Yankees.
To me Farnsworth is no different than Zumaya or Rodney–power pitchers who can be very good when they’re on but who tend to be inconsistent.
I don’t think a third reliever in that category adds a lot of value.
Plus I just hate the thought of Pudge as a Yankee. For all the various bumps along the way, if he hadn’t signed with the Tigers in 2004, it’s a matter of debate whether we’re even sniffing the playoffs this season.
Advice on how to use Farsny from a Yankee fan:
-Do not use him in a close game.
-Do not use him 2 games in a row.
-Try to limit him to 6th inning situations.
Oh – and thanks!!!
Jim brings up a good point. This might have been a deal they were working on for a while with other teams but were unable to get Pudge to waive his no-trade clause unless he went to the Yankees (or another contender).
Using the new value scale Anson mentioned, I think the best the Tigers could get for Sheffield would be one of those old-school hand-crank washing machines that attaches to the edge of the bathtub.
Chris even if Pudge vetoed any other trade we could have just held on to him and still got those draft picks at the end of the year.
also, small sample size maybe, but farnsworth since the allstar break, 4 outtings, 5.40 ERA 1.50 WHIP
gosh
Thanks to you GM for proposing this trade!
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/30/cashman-talks-about-the-trade/#comments
Joel does that include the wash tub or is it just the crank part? Oh what do I care I’d take either at this point.
JOE – that’s a stupid post. in JULY Fansworth went 10 straight outtings without giving up a run. Only in his last outting he gave up any runs.
Let’s go back three years ago this week.
On July 31st the Tigers were 50-54 and were 8 games out of the wild card (and 18 1/2 behind the White Sox in the division).
They traded Kyle Farnsworth, who had had a very good year, to the Braves for Roman Colon and Zach Miner.
Dombrowski realized that his team wasn’t going to make the playoffs–and he knew that Farnsworth had turned down a contract extension, so was heading out on the free agent market. He made what I think we all would agree was a justifiable move, getting a couple arms in exchange for two months from Farnsworth.
Unfortunately, the team didn’t see it that way. Supposedly Pudge and Magglio were infuriated because they thought the Tigers had given up. And the team fell apart. They went from 50-54 and 8 out of the wild card to 71-91 and 24 out of the wild card, and Trammell lost his job.
This year Dombrowski presumably is making this move in order to make the playoffs. The Tigers have a slightly smaller deficit than in ’05 and two ways to make the playoffs rather than just the wild card.
But they just traded away one of the faces of the franchise, a Latino player on a team dominated by Latinos. And not just that, but a Hall of Famer.
Are they really sure that this team, which has had huge problems with lack of focus throughout the year, won’t collapse? In other words, will this trade produce results akin though not as catastrophic as in 2005?
I don’t have a problem with the concept of trading Pudge, or even of trading him to the Yankees. I do think that they got far less than they could have gotten from a desperate team and I think Dombrowski didn’t consider the psychological impact on a team that has had psyche issues all year. And, given 2005, he should have remembered the psychological aspects of any such move.
i love dave dombrowski, but (darn) his love of the power pitcher, and this trade.
1. everything billfer says about draft picks
2. the tigers can not possibly care about saving money considering the payroll
3. we can all name numerous middle relief pitchers are that atleast on the same level and even better as farnsworth.
4. parttime or not, glad we got rid of a .295 hitter so we can replace him with someone who (arguably) doesnt want to catch and oh, is hitting .230
if no other deals are in place, this was a very weak move from the tigers. and leaves me quite sad
(ps im sory about the past 4 outtings post, that was lame lol)
Well, nearly everyone wanted Pudge gone after last season. Some were mad that we picked up his $13 million option year.
Now everyone is mad that we trade him and actually got someone good in return for him. Btw, prospects are not gauranteed to ever make the majors!!!
Farnsworth is an immediate upgrade to our pen. This might be the best move DD ever made if Farnsworth can keep pitching like he has for the past month.
Thanks to you GM for proposing this trade!
You’re welcome. We don’t understand the deal either. Congratulations, you took us to the cleaners. The fact that this was Dombrowski’s opening negotiating position is frightening.
Though I guess it could have been worse, Cashman could have countered “How about Farnsworth for Pudge and Rick Porcello?” Given how desperate Dombrowski must have been to get a relief pitcher, he might have made that deal too. So Tigers fans should count their blessings.
The fact that the media hates this deal almost certainly means it will be a resounding success.
Chief Monday your optimism is going to make me vomit one of these days.
It’s not like we traded away John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. It’s more like we traded John Wockenfuss for Willie Hernendez.
I don’t believe for a second that Pudge would’ve turned down a trade to Florida. The dude has a house in Miami.
“Chief Monday your optimism is going to make me vomit one of these days.”
I suppose that’s a level better than crap the bed optimism
This might be the best move DD ever made if Farnsworth can keep pitching like he has for the past month.
Carlos Guillen says “hi”.
Anson- you make me want to vomit too. so we’re even.
“It’s more like we traded John Wockenfuss for Willie Hernendez.”
Future Hall of Famer John Wockenfuss….OK, now THAT would be crap-the-bed optimism
Ahh thanks Chief. Maybe DD can pry Ausmus away from the ‘stros now?
I think I need to take a break away from this vomitorium before I lose my interest in the Ham Sandwich
So does Placido Polanco.
Pudge wasn’t making it to the HOF based on his numbers this year or last year. He wasn’t going to be on the team next season either. I don’t understand why anyone would be pissed about this trade.
It really boils down to the fact that they traded Pudge + 1 draft pick for Farnsworth. You weren’t going to get anything close to actual value for Pudge since he’s going to be a free agent (see Teixeira, Mark) so when you look at it that way, it’s not horrible. My question is why in the blue hell did you draft 473 MLB ready relievers if you weren’t planning on using them in ’08? This makes the draft look foolhardy.
Jeremy Bonderman offers salutations as well. So would Carlos Pena if he were still a Tiger…
Chief:
It’s not so much what the Tigers traded, it’s what they got back. As was pointed out, even if he left, Pudge was worth two prospects. So you play out the season with Pudge (who is better both offensively and defensively than the guys we have left) and get those two draft picks next year, or you make this trade but insist on getting at least a mid-level prospect to make the trade even.
Farnsworth had little value to the Yankees, and Pudge filled an urgent need. The Tigers could have at least started with a more equitable package in return. According to Cashman, this was the original deal offered.
EDIT: Also, what Chris said.
I’m a Yankees fan, so thanks.
But I think you’re GM was caught in a bind. Pudge probably wanted to go to a contender, and just how many contenders are there with depth in the bullpen who need a catcher?
On the bright side, Krazy Kyle was rated a Class B FA last year, missing Class A by 11 or so pitchers, who knows, if he pitches well in Detroit, he might become a Class A FA.
Carlos Guillen says “hi”.
Yeah, that was a stupid thing that I said.
Farnsworth could be instrumental to our stretch run though. He’s immediately the best guy in our pen. .
m4rk6:
Non-contenders don’t trade for guys like Pudge, whose contracts are up at the end of the year.
Dombrowski didn’t have to do anything. The draft picks have a higher chance of making a difference for this team than the Pr0ff3s0r.
But I like Kyle, and I’m hoping he can pitch his way to class-A status. Though he’s probably less likely than Pudge to decline arbitration, if offered.
Farnsworth will easily get class A or 2 draft picks if he’s our closer for the rest of the season. We might even resign him after he saves game 7 of the world series for us.
Alright Chief’s optimism just made me vomit.
I agree that we seemingly could have gotten more, but it’s hard to know for sure. This also leaves open the door that another trade could be coming down the line – the Rangers are going to have to unload Laird/Salty/Ramirez, and they are STARVING for bullpen help…
Anyway, I’m a bit shocked that so many posts are reveling in Pudge’s abilities. I really don’t think there is much cause to examine his offensive mediocrity, but defensively he is every bit of 36 years old. Yes, he still has a canon for an arm, but its not as if Inge can’t get the ball down to 2B.
Not a great trade, but fills a need that we’ve all been complaining about since the season began.
Finally, I’m curious to see where Pudge goes in the offseason. It’s not as if NYY is gonna keep two 35+ catchers on the roster. Maybe he’ll head back to Texas to train the young guys and make a run at 3,000 hits.
I’m not so sure Posada will be able to catch again, and the Yankees print money, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pudge re-sign there.
I literally said to myself, just as I clicked on the link to this page “yeah, I don’t think the Tigers will do anything at the deadline this year.” Shows what I know.
I’m not horrified by this trade, but not exactly thrilled with it either.
I will say this, all my Yankee fan co-workers are looking at me with a sort of pitying expression. Maybe they’re thinking Pudge is more than he is, but it feels kind of crappy to be on the seeming wrong end of this one.
$20 says Minaya signs Pudge to get his team closer to all-latin status.
Here’s an idea that occurred to me:
Pudge may have been likely to accept arbitration, thereby locking the Tigers in for another year of a catcher they don’t want, and preventing DD from getting compensatory draft picks. Farnsworth, having already wanted out of Detroit the first time and generally just being a jerk, may be more likely to decline arbitration, securing DD at least one draft pick, perhaps two if he pitches well enough.
However, I really hope there is more to come in the way of landing a catcher, because the thought of Brandon Inge catching every day is not a good one.
The fact that DD proposed this trade to Cashman leads me to believe (perhaps out of blind faith in humanity), that DD has something else cooking to get a catcher.
In JLs pre-game with Jim Price he said that the entire organization had already made up it’s mind that Pudge wouldn’t be back next year, and that they knew Brandon would be the full time catcher next year.
I’m hoping that we get Laird in here. Not sure how we make that happen, but I like the guy.
Chief Monday is not a Tigers fan. He is either a Twins or Indians or White Sox fan just here to make mischief. Let’s try and ignore him.
Cleveland announcers saying, “it’s not a big secret that Pudge Rodriguez was not the most popular guy in the Detroit clubhouse.”
I honestly had no idea of this, can anyone comment?
Chief Monday: “We might even resign him after he saves game 7 of the world series for us.”
Hey, stop being so negative…I don’t see us losing any more than 1 game.
I dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet: the WSox have to play the Yanks 4 more times this year. Maybe this is the Tigers way of saying, “if you can’t beat them…send some players to a team that can.”
That’s basically the only way this makes sense to me.
This may be a dumb move, but I don’t think its throwing in the towel. To those who say it is I have this to point out:
when you’re # of games behind division leader < # games remaining against said opponent = you are still “in it”.
“I honestly had no idea of this, can anyone comment?”
Pudge doesn’t like to lose, and has been known to air his opinions as to who is responsible for losing…(which, and this is a wild guess, probably don’t include himself).
Personally, I think the Tigers needed a bit of the “hates to lose” bit…
It’s the same thing, when things are going well instead of badly, that is sometimes called “being a team leader.” I’m wondering however if Cap’n Smokes had become a target of the Pudge grumbling and had grown weary of it…
(As much sense as it makes, and as well as it worked out, I don’t recall ever hearing PUDGE say he liked getting some extra days off, for example…)
I am not too surprised that the Tigers traded Pudge. I just felt that they could have (and should have) gotten more for him. Farnsworth has been pitching better this year an in past years with the Yankees. But, the two players straight up does not seem to me to be an even trade.
Part of me wonders if Pudge was starting to show signs of becoming a cancer in the clubhouse, since the Tigers cannot seem to get over the hump of playing .500 baseball since the hit the .500 mark a few weeks back or finishing games they should have won (like the ChiSox game on Friday night or the Orioles game a few weeks ago).
It is not a move that I consider “throwing in the towel”. I just wish the trade would have been Farnsworth plus some other piece (i.e. utility player/s, prospect/s or player/s to be named later).
Getting Farnsworth isn’t throwing in the towel. It’s putting out the fire with gasoline.
I definitely would have preferred somebody more proven than Farnsworth…but I have to assume DD knows what he’s doing. Then again, as my Pappy always said:
“Assumption makes an ‘ass’ out of ‘u’ and ‘ption'”
Reading some of that yankee blog (which is a trainwreck btw compared to our nice set up here) A couple of people had commented on how choked up Farnsworth was at the press conference. Perhaps even cried a bit. Does this show his loyalty and love for the Yankees? Or dread and lack of desire of being a Tiger again? Or its it just an emotional event being traded well into the season to another team?
I was a a Tigers Game on July 13 with my Brother. He wanted to see Pudge and the rest of the Tigers. I was schduled to go to my next game on Aug. 16th with the KofC from East Lansing. I cancelled our tickets. Pudge who has had two five hit games and two four hits games recently for a pitcher with an elevated ERA. Why not Todd Jones and Gary Sheffield who seem to have lost their competive edge.
I bet the attendance drops not because they won’t win the division or wild card, but because Pudge was such a fan magnet. I watch Tiger on FSN almost every game, maybe this is a wake up call for me to do something more productive. Dave, I wouldn’t have thought you would have done this, but then again I didn’t think Bret Farve would go play for a different NFL team.
P.U. on this deal.
Mike Niemela
Or it could be that he is always crying, but we don’t notice because he is not on TV
Hey #9. Does not matter Angels will win the AL. You guys don’t have a prayer. Pudge will increase your gidp stats.
Long time reader, first time poster. I was there in 2005, when Farnsworth body slammed Kansas City’s Jeremy Affeldt in a huge brawl. That’s all the convincing I need, good deal.
“Who’s your Tiger?”
Well, it was Pudge. He was a HUGE name player who came here when the team stunk like last month’s garbage, and, IMO, blazed the trail for other good players to come here as well (Maggs, Polanco, Guillen, Kenny, Sheff). And yes, I know the money did some of the talking, but I’m sure several teams would’ve paid well for him.
Anyway, I guess Grandy is my Tiger now.
peopleMover, I was thinking the exact thing. Let’s hope he still has the fire, eh?
“Chief Monday is not a Tigers fan. He is either a Twins or Indians or White Sox fan just here to make mischief. Let’s try and ignore him.”
Some might say the same of you, stephen 🙂
I’ve read through all these posts and Jeff makes the best point, Pudge was a HUGE leader on this team amongst his Latino peers. I hope DD factored this into the equation.
THIS TRADE SUCKS!!!
I have always been under the school of thought that even if a catcher hits .180, if he catches the pitching staff outstanding, you don’t trade him. In fact you pay him. He is like a coach on the field and your leader.
When the Tigs initially signed Pudge, the Tigs won 75 games. Pudge was upset and told management that when he thought they were trying to build a winner. They did. That energetic leadership is what will be missed.
Inge might be ok as the everyday catcher, but I like the idea of leaving Inge at third, put Guillen back at short, Polanco at second, Cabrera at first, and send Renteria packing.
Farnsworth is an ok addition. It probably means him in the 7th or 8th, Zumaya in the ninth and the end of the Todd Jones era, but wow…
I have always thought of Pudge as the corvette that the pitching staff rides in, and now we just sold the corvette.
It’s a sad day to be a Tigers fan.
I have been away and have to say I never received so many phone calls and emails as today. I have to say I was devastated at first. Pudge is part of the Tiger Family. I think he is/was the most competitive guy on the team. My feeling is they felt he was going to leave at the end of the year and my guess is he won’t be a Yankee next year either.
In order to get a quality pitcher they needed to fill a desperate need for someone else. I predicted this after Posada went on the DL. (Not the Farnsworth part).
Pudge we will miss you. My kids are at camp and are going to be so upset when they get home.
Mark in Chicago
I thought Sean Casey was the most popular guy in the clubhouse. (Let’s not go there)
Chemistry is a tough subject
Maybe Inge could come in and pitch to himself.
The two most exciting Tiger moments of my adult life are in this order:
1) Magglio’s homerun
2) The signing of Pudge.
I think having Pudge on the trade block was smart, but not to move him to get a Jason Grilli clone. When you make a trade at the trade deadline it is either to win now or win later, this was win neither.
Does anyone get the feeling that after some brilliant moves early on, Dombrowski has gotten a little too trigger happy?
See thought he was going to throw a wild pitch on the IBB
Bill, I had the exact same reaction. “Who else did we get?”
Dumb. Thanks for getting the worse end of the deal with Brian Cashman, Mr. Dombrowski. I’m so disenchanted with this front office lately. So frustrating.
Terrible. Absolutely terrible.
I hope I’m wrong.
Oh good lord, settle down ladies…
Have you actually been paying attention to Dave Dombrowski? I have to believe that this is Step 1 in a plan that has a couple steps. They aren’t giving up on 2008, that’s obvious. And there had been plenty of trade rumors about Pudge, since we all knew he wasn’t coming back next year. That wasn’t really a secret, given his declining production and high cost.
When I saw Posada had season-ending surgery, I told my wife on Tuesday that meant Pudge was going to the Yankees. That’s right: I called it. I thought it would net us a prospect at shortstop, but Farnsworth makes sense.
The key to this deal is the $6 million or whatever this saves us in salary. It was a BUSINESS decision which did not hurt the ballclub’s chances in any meaningful way. Farnsworth is an above-average reliever. Everyone seems to want Cy Young in every deal.
Someone explain this to me: How can it be that getting rid of Farnsworth was “giving up” in 2005, and getting Farnsworth back is “giving up” or a “terrible” deal in 2008? That’s nutty.
We lose a little offense from the catcher, we gain a + bullpen arm with playoff experience who is pitching well right now. It also sets the table for another move, and it saves a cash-strapped organization several million bucks.
I think this move just recognizes that a playoff spot is a longshot, and our real need is pitching, not offense. As evidenced by tonight’s 14-12 circus show.
Ah, ok… Maybe not “cash-strapped,” but the Tigers are certainly overextended on salary, and I’m sure that the disappointing performance this year had DD looking for ways to save some $.
Call this irrational (it is), but I was savoring a Yankees team without a number one catcher.
It’s just that right now it’s disappointing it was the Tigers who helped them out, whatever happens through September.
The audio of Farnsworth’s press conference is brutal. Sounds like the dude is going to jail.
The video is worse. He was crying. Not very intimidating I must say.
scotsw: Agreed. The team is really “only” saving around $2.5 million in the deal though, since they’ve already paid Pudge $8.6 mil (of $13 mil) and the Yankees have already paid Farnsworth $3.6 mil (of $5.5 mil). Anyway, my only qualm is the fact that so many college relievers were drafted in the early rounds, presumably with an eye to them contributing *this* season. You would think they could’ve drafted for another position of need instead (C, SS) if the plan was to trade for a veteran bullpen guy. All in all it’s really kind of a wash, especially if Inge continues tonking HR all over the place. If Farnsworth pitches his way into Type A status, all the better.
Make that 13.