97 thoughts on “Game 2009.093: Mariners at Tigers”

  1. Hello everyone… on vacation today, get to watch a day game from the couch while it rains in Rochester. I hope French can come up with a game today.

  3. Can’t watch the game today, but saw on gameday that inge made an error on the first play of the game. Does he look at all like he should be playing?

  9. Wow we can’t do anything offensively. Just awful, we are totally getting shut out today (which is least different from losing 2-1…). And the White Sox took a 4-0 over TB, so we could open tomorrow’s double header tied for first.

    This sucks.

    1. He’s getting hit pretty hard, multiple times in an inning with a game that’s still technically within reach.

  12. The tigers should make a trade for Chris Shelton, he is in town with the M’s. Maybe former all star Robert Fick is available.

    1. That’s not a bad idea, since long-term we’ll need a first baseman in a year or two when Cabrera’s out of baseball.

      Maybe they’ll take Nate for Shelton.

  13. Is it too late to scrounge up some piano legs to swing during the 8th and 9th innings?

  14. Magglio has seen 6 pitches in 3 at bats. There’s aggressive and there’s stupid, and Maggs looks to have crossed the line towards the latter.

  15. We may not be getting hits but 4 or 5 more of those 8 pitch innings and Washburn’s done.

  17. I really feel bad for all the loyal fans at this site, tabulating stats and beating their heads against the wall as to why this team is not performing. IMHO . . . the players are what they are . . . they are performing as to their status quo. Oh sure, they could show a bit more spark and commitment and excitement. Look at how the White Sox are playing today, when they smell a division lead coming their way . . .do you think the Tigers would play the same? No!

    Professional sports franchises are won or lost in the front office. It is their responsibility to cultivate a team and get the best resources with the budgets they have. Dave Dombrowski is an utter failure and the Tigers organization will never be a winner until he is shown the door.

    1. Dave Dombrowski built this team from the ground up. He’s added fantastic pitching, shored up the defense, and the offense is not as bad as people have come to assume.

      The lack of run support for the arms starts and ends with Jim Leyland’s lineup decisions. There’s a very easy way to figure out who should hit where, and he’s yet to understand that. When he does, the Tigers will score. Until then, they’ll continue to falter.

      1. He makes his lineup to minimize outs (which is a valid goal, just not the best one with this particular team), and to gain an advantage in pitching matchups and relief pitcher matchups, which is just dumb.

        What we end up with is the guys who are hitting/getting on base spaced out through the lineup, and, predictably, a lack of back-to-back hits, which is how you score runs.

        Cabrera-Inge-Granderson should be next to each other in the order in some fashion.

  18. Clete’s swing seems to have gotten, how you say, long, again. And what’s with taking a 2-strike pitch in the middle of the plate?

  21. my favorite part will be when granderson ties it with a 2-run homer only to see our bullpen give up one in the top of the 9th so we can lose 3-2.

    good times.

  22. wow, i totally didn’t see that grandy hit a triple. i was almost right.

  23. That’s the 2nd consecutive pinch-hit appearance by Santiago where he got rung up on a very questionable 3rd strike, what did he ever do wrong?

    Maybe the umps are irritated by all the foul balls; I’m guessing Ramon probably leads the team in fouls per plate appearance.

  25. Buehrle now has a perfect game through 7.

    Not that the White Sox will be pumped up or anything if their pitcher throws a perfect game in their getaway game…

    PS: Thanks a lot Tampa Bay. Enjoy Matt Joyce.

    1. it’s not over yet.

      Unfortunately in the 9th though we have our 3-4-5 hitters due up.

  27. Wow…another flyball…..useless….We are now going to be in a first place tie and it is because of the lack of offense. This second half fade crap has got to stop. I am getting so sick of it. After this weekend, we may be behind the Twins.

  28. Buehrle perfect through 8, and hasn’t even thrown 100 pitches yet.

    I should have eaten earlier, I’m quickly losing my appetite…

  31. Nope, don’t worry about the offense boys, Guillen will be back in 3 weeks, and he will fix everything. Until then, Dombroski has reassured us that a trade will not be done to bolster the offense.

    Estimates of how many back we will be at the return of Guillen….I’m going with 4.5

  32. So is there going to be a firesale anytime soon? Not that we have much to trade.
    (Assuming Verlander, E-Jax, Porcello, Grandy and Miggy are off limits)

    2. Since firesale implies dumping players at bargain prices, I guess that means we’ll be paying somebody to take Anderson.

    3. Firesale?

      Firesales occur with teams that are out of the race and are building for the future. What about this Tigers team makes you think they fit that description? They’re still first in the AL Central. A good series against the White Sox and everyone’s tune will change.

      Go after a bat? Makes a bit more sense, but not if it requires giving up a ton of talent. The Tigers have a nucleus of young arms AND bats, and it doesn’t make any sense to give any of that up. Unless they can get a difference-maker (someone with a high OPS, forget about average), then it’s silly to do it just to make it seem like you’re doing something. It can be counter-productive…

  33. I’m getting sloppy; I put the White Sox game on the laptop without muting it first, and had to hear the unmentionable announcers crowing about Detroit losing to Seattle again before I had a chance to kill the sound…ugh…

  35. Oh crap, Wise just snowconed one above the fence for 1st out in the 9th

    “The greatest catch in the last 50 years…”

    Oh, can it blowhard.

      1. Wishful thinking…they must be Tiger fans.

        I was watching and I thought “gone” when it left the bat…almost, but no cigar. Not even a cigarette butt.

  36. Congrats to Buehrle. Painful to hear those crows yelling “history” but amazing anyways.

    I think talk of a firesale is a bit premature. We’re in first place for goodness sakes. Let’s enjoy it a bit longer.

  37. The EM needs to mix things up tomorrow. How about Anderson batting cleanup – both games!

    1. Here’s what I hate about his lineups. (Besides where he has guys batting in them). He has to have his alternating righty-lefty thing all the time. And the rationale for that? It makes it harder on the other team to bring in relief pitchers to get lefty-lefty matchups etc.

      Umm, Uncle Smokey, you may not have noticed but NOBODY NEEDS RELIEF PITCHERS against this lineup. We have the lowest pitches/plate appearance in the league, so we aren’t chasing anybody on pitch counts. And we aren’t scoring any runs, so we aren’t chasing anybody that way.

      1. Haha, I agree completely.

        For a guy who tends to take pride in his lineups and put so much thought into them, how do they come out so terribly? The righty-lefty stuff is completely unwarranted — hit the best hitter higher and give him chance to drive in runs. Don’t bat Clete Thomas 4(!) just because he’s left-handed — that doesn’t make him a good hitter just because he may hit righties better. He’s still going to struggle.

        When teams have a ton of hits and very few runs to show for it, in normally means the lineup has been constructed poorly. The guys who are getting on base and hitting for power are doing so behind the wrong guys (the ones who AREN’T getting on base with any regularity). It’s an easy fix that seems to be completely ignored by JL and it’s starting to become a glaring weakness…

        1. That’s funny, I posted almost the same thing in response to you above:

          “He makes his lineup to minimize outs (which is a valid goal, just not the best one with this particular team), and to gain an advantage in pitching matchups and relief pitcher matchups, which is just dumb.

          What we end up with is the guys who are hitting/getting on base spaced out through the lineup, and, predictably, a lack of back-to-back hits, which is how you score runs.

          Cabrera-Inge-Granderson should be next to each other in the order in some fashion.”

      2. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with for tomorrow’s twin tilt. I am sure he will feel pressured to “do something”. And, as you well know, when that happens anything goes. The liklihood of seeing the 80th different batting order this season seems pretty strong – not that it will make sense, but hey, when you need to shake things up…..

  38. Impressive outing by Buehrle.

    But there’s no need for the rest of the ChiSox pitching staff to get jealous. I’m sure they’ll all have a shot at a no-no this weekend.

  39. Being tied for first is NOT being in first place, especially when you have lost 5 of 6 after the break and will be facing the team you are tied with which is hotter than you are right now.

    1. Wait… What? If you’re tied for first place, you’re not in first place? You’re in… second?

      They’re still in first place, and a good series against the White Sox and every thing is different. Panic mode seems to be coming on a little quickly… Take solace in the fact that the Tigers have lost 5 of 6 and are STILL in first place. Once they get hot again, they can pull away again. That’s how this works, there’s still half a season of baseball left and the Tigers have one of the best rotations in baseball right now.

      1. Last week . . . shoot, another loss to NY, well they are still 3 up on the WS and Twins . . . oh darn, another loss, now it’s down to 2 games . . . wait a minute, the bullpen blows another, shoot, now we are up by one game . . . hold it, no offense today again, oh noooo. . . . tied for first place . . . Friday at 1:05 Pm . . . oh no, no!!!!!

        Boy are you overly optimistic. I guess you aren’t aware of the Tigers record against the White Sox recently. Do you really think being TIED for first place right now makes any difference?

        And panic mode coming on quickly? One of the worst offenses currently in baseball and I am panicking? Still half a season? . . . brother, that’s Leeland speak. I don’t care how good your rotation is, when you are not CONSISTENTLY hitting and don’t have a clue how to manufacture much needed, timely runs, NO rotation can be expected to win games.

        I honestly hope you are right, that after this weekend, the Tigers are 2-3 games in first place, but I highly doubt it considering the history of Tigers hitters against the upcoming WS pitching coupled w/the return of Bonine.

  40. Absolutely pathetic offensive performance by the offense again today. When your pitching holds teams to 2 runs a game in 4 out of 5 games and you can’t win one of them that is how you don’t make it to the playoffs. I wonder though how much would going out and overpaying for Holiday even really help this team when you have 1 guy hitting over .265 it is just a pretty poor offensive team all around.

  41. And as long as we’re talking about the lineups, I cringe every time I hear Leyland complain about quick at bats and how we aren’t making the pitchers work etc (which he is right about obviously, and I agree):

    The Tigers’ lowest PPA batter (Polanco) is hitting 2nd. The Tigers’ highest PPA batter (Inge) is hitting 7th. The #2 hitter will have more ABs against the starter than the #7 hitter. Therefore your lineup is constructed to MINIMIZE pitch count. (Inge has already seen 200+ more pitches than Polanco this season).

    1. Details, details. That is all well and good, but of secondary importance to the LRLRLR theory that he learned in Manager School back in 1920.

    2. Speaking of Polanco, I don’t remember him being a member of the Quick At Bat Club before this year. Or is my memory just wrong.

  43. Polanco is an oddity; he’s been a quick AB for a while, but he’s not part of the First Pitch Swingers Club (hmm that sounds more interesting than I intended). But just try and get a 2nd pitch by him.

    He’s famously hard to strike out. What they don’t mention is that he’s just as hard to walk. He’s a pure put the ball in play guy. Which is why we get to enjoy this 1st inning combo so often: Granderson: walk. Polanco GIDP (Polanco already has 6 1st inning GIDPs, I think half of which follow pattern of: pitch 1; called strike. Pitch 2: GIDP.)

    Where would I bat him? 6th.

  44. Man this bites. Another 2-1 lose, and now 0-4 in 2-1 lose games after the break. The offense sucks!! Plain and simple. And now from what I see, DD is doing the same as Dumars, OVERRATING prospects/players. If we are to seriously get into a trade, and seriously contend (by any means necessary as Illitch says), then we ARE going to have to give up some good prospects. And we can’t balk at some of our names that come up. (Only names I say off limits , Sizemore, Porcello, and Iorg [Prospect wise])

    But since it looks like we are truly relying on Guillen (who has only 1 hit since doing his rehab, and has had a pathetic time before his injury) to save the day. We are lost.

    If we do not get a bat before the deadline, We will finish 3rd at about 7-12 games out. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    Bats to go after: Scott, Holliday or someone else we have really talked about. Freddy Sanchez or maybe even another OF (prefer LF) candidate. WE need something otherwise I say, let use prepare for next season and start a semi firesale. Cause without a bat, and eventually Inge going on the DL, we are done. End of Story.

    1. You hit the nail on the head regarding DD and his overrating. I believe he is just protecting his own job by trying to make his trades/pics sound much better than they really are. The thing I can’t understand is how Illitch allows DD to continue to destroy this franchise. Granting Leyland an extension is bad enough, but DD’s gross mishandling of this team seems to know no bounds.

      If he doesn’t act to spur the offense by firing McClendon as a statement to the offense that they need to get it together, then the season is indeed lost and I think 10 games out, 3rd possibly fourth place if Cleveland gets hot, is a definite possibility.

      1. See Im not as hard on DD as everyone else is here. The Leyland extension was sensible and I agree with it even now. Leyland with the crappy offense he was handed has done wonders to keep this team competitive. Pitching is another problem but still he has done moderately good with it.

        McClendon should be fired if something to the offense doesn’t happen soon. Cause scoring only 7 runs in 5 of the last 6 games is pathetic.

        We need a bat, and to get one it’ll take some of our good prospects to get ’em. Guillen isnt the answer, and Miggy, Maggs, arent delivering right now. We need a new face, even if it is someone who is not as high profile but gets the job done. Like Casey in ’06.

        I personally think if DD doesn’t get a bat, which Illitch clearly wants to win and wont without one, DD’s job is in jeopardy, like it should be.

        1. I don’t think firing McLendon is the answer, it’s the talent on this team. We were getting by earlier in the season with huge output from Inge, and occassional good games from Thomas, Santiago, Everett, Anderson, etc. But the fact is, these guys just aren’t good hitters, and their production was completely unsustainable. Throw in an aging Polanco and Ordonez and a missing Guillen and this is what you get.

          I can’t see any of that being McLendon’s fault.

      1. I don’t think DD is over valuing his prospects as much as there is just not a lot on the market and the options are pay out the wazoo for the few decent hitters that are out there or give up some good prospects for players who are not even for sure better than what you have. You also have to remember we have Thames at OF/DH for next year and then we have Guillen coming back at OF/DH and he is signed for 2 more years. So we can’t just go and give up good young players for a another OF/DH player and be stuck with a team of DH’s for 2 years.

    3. The problem with going after the likes of Scott or Holliday is that neither are signed past this year. You’d be trading fairly valuable prospects (Crosby is mentioned as just part of a package in a deal for Holliday) for what could just be rentals with little chance of resigning (especially in the case of Holliday who’s making $13.5 mil this year).

      I won’t revolt if they do end up going that route, but I recognize the argument against it, which is fairly strong.

  45. In response to Vince in Twinland, Polanco is last on the team with 3.45 pitches per PA ( unless you count Anderson, who somehow thinks he is a 1st-pitch hitter).

    His career PPA is 3.37…so he is actually seeing MORE pitches than usual this year. (i’m not sure how to even check this, but 3.37 has to be in the running for lowest career PPA, at least in the last 25 years)

  46. I wish we would have gotten Scott before the BAL series…even if we would have signed him and sent him to Toledo it could have been worth two wins.

    But maybe “Scott” was referring to Scott Lusader.

  47. Steve, I agree with you. This has been very much a smoke and mirrors team to this point, and as much as I’d love to scrape our way to the post-season, I wouldn’t be willing to do it at the expense of whatever future we have. Obviously a lot of ifs, but we do have a very young pitching staff, with 2 studs. And hopefully from Porcello, Bonderman, Gallaraga, and whoever else surfaces we’ll have a nice core of pitching. The lineup is hideous to say the least, but at least we start out with Granderson and Cabrera to build around. Unless we can get a relatively cheap bat I’m in the “wait til next year” crowd.

  48. Lots of games like these should be expected from our line-up. We know what we have, so I don’t know why there should be much fussing.

    Since March, nearly everyone has been saying it will only take 84-88 wins to win the AL Central. That’s just about what the Tigers have been on pace for most of the season. We were actually on pace to win about 90 games for awhile. It’s going to be more of the same for the rest of the season. Nothing spectacular, but not too shabby either.

  49. What a miserable stretch to lose four 2-1 games…

    I want Polanco, Ordonez, Guillen & Cabrera gone. These guys were once great but now are worthless choke artists. I can’t even put into words how disappointed I am in Cabrera. 52 RBIs is inexcusable. Where are the runs, you pig?

    1. At this point, you’re just too predictable to even be considered a troll. While I don’t know what category you do fit into anymore, I know that its not ‘knowledgeable’, ‘objective’, ‘credible’ or even ‘insightful’.

      “Where are the runs, you pig?”

      Actually, @ 55 runs, Cabrera is tied for the team lead, and is 5th in runs (for AL 1B).

        1. Nobody is saying they’re thrilled with Cabrera’s production, pal. But he’s hardly been a “pig”. But I guess its easy to call others pigs while maintaining anonymity.

    3. Who do you suggest we replace those players with that makes them better today or in the future?

  50. To KS,

    I tend to agree, we shouldn’t ship out our own ‘bluechip’ prospects like Porcello.
    But there are things called windows. And right now, I do think this is the last year of our window of opportunity since ’06. I do not believe we will be competitive next year at all. And maybe not until ’11 or ’12. From the makeup of our lineup it seems that we may be in for a great pitching staff with a lot of 1-0 or 2-1 or 3-2 loses for a long time to come. Because there is no great ‘bluechip’ power hitters in our system as we are just a C rated farm. And so we will have a great pitching rotation with a sound bullpen but crappy offense lineup that cant score to save their lives.

    And to Keith,

    If things stay the way they are with minimal offense. We are looking at sub 80 win season. We cannot just scrap our way to the end line we need to move now. If we are to get to the post season. If we make no move we are done.

    1. We’d already be done if we weren’t a team good overall. Defense and pitching goes a long way and has carried us thus far. It’s just not your style of baseball and you’re sour about it. We’ll score more than one run per game for the rest of the season, that’s for sure. We’re at the tail end of a losing streak right now, that’s all. We’ll probably win the next 8 of 10 games.

    2. Even the most pathetic hitting lineups (such as the ’07 Padres) were able to win a majority of games where they only gave up two runs.

      This team should drop their heads in shame for this. It is inexcusable. It’s one thing when your team stinks because of poor pitching. It’s quite another to lose when your pitching is terrific but your hitters score runs as if they were a team of little girls. Good pitching is hard to come by and hitting lineups adequate to win with such good pitching is easy.

      Its time to let Cabrera and the girls know that they suck.

      1. I’d rather lose games 2-1 or even 1-0 than losing 6-5 or 10-9. In the past we had to out slug other teams, right now it’s just about getting a lucky break or just getting a few sacrifice flies. The biggest problem is we just faced AJ Burnett, CC Sabathia, Joba Chamberlain, King Felix, and Jarrod Washburn. Those are 5 premium pitchers right there. I doubt we’ll run into great pitching performances like again this year.

  52. chris I thought seeing one of your legendary “Cabrera should be out of baseball” posts last night was awesome and entertaining. But that one goes a bit far, and almost looks like you have some non-baseball beefs with these guys. I’m a bit disappointed in Cabrera also but I haven’t seen anything which even vaguely merits an insult like “pig”

    Maybe it turns out Cabrera isn’t a young Pujols; maybe he’s a young Tony Gwynn (if you have a problem with his size). At any rate I don’t see a lazy or bad attitude guy…just a guy who isn’t knocking in runs.

    2. I don’t see anything that indicates that he is lazy or has a bad attitude. I just know that he is supposed to be the kind of player who is capable of carrying the team from time to time. But it’s been a season and a half and I have yet to see that. Yes, he has put up some good numbers, but for the most part, I don’t feel that he is our Morneau, our Teixeira, our A-Rod, our Pujols. At this point, I think he barely makes it into the 2nd tier of hitters (your Tejadas, Kemps, Cuddyers).

      Cabrera is a monster disappointment so far as a Tiger. I’m sorry, I was expecting so much more.

      1. Morneau, Teixeira, A-Rod… those are examples of great hitters who also benefits from having other great hitters batting before and after them.

        Pujols is obviously the exception but he’s literally a once-in-a-decade type player.

        Bat Joe Mauer in front of Cabrera and I bet his numbers will improve. Until then, Cabrera is the only guy on our team with a .300 plus batting average. He’s simply NOT going to see many great pitches because we’ve got 8 other easy outs in the batting line-up.

  53. Ok so over at Ian Casselberry’s blog, someone overheard Racardi, talking to DD about something. But not Halladay, but it was about something else.

    He thinks its about MArco Scutaro. Well if that’s our upgrade, we might as well say the season is lost. Scutaro is having a nice season at .286, 8 hrs and 43 RBIs. However he would probably be in for third base for Inge when he goes on the DL. but subtract Inge’s power, and clutch hitting, there’s no way to make up for that in a lineup that’s already bad. Im afraid we are lost.

  54. In the meantime,

    Boston has lost 5 games in a row and are 2 games out of 1st place. They’ only scored 9 runs total in those 5 games. They don’t suck, they just ran into some great pitching performances like we did.

    KC has lost 9 games in a row. They seem to losing every which way a team can.

  55. Folks, let’s face it. The manager is at fault when you have talent that isn’t performing. Watch a lot of baseball and NEVER see other teams do so much switcharoo in their lineup. Players can’t get in a rythem when they aren’t playing every day. Its disrupting to see so many lineups. They don’t play in the NL. Polonco is suffering from this. Put in a lineup that becomes a TEAM and let them play. If you have too many talents, trade for something you need. Maglio is also suffering from this. Last year isn’t that far away where Mags hit over 300, Polonco hit over 300 and Cabrera led the league. Don’t blame them for their situation when the manager won’t let them play. This “you’re not the starter, I’m going to platoon you” isn’t baseball, its punishment for having a good year. If they need a day off, they’ll ask for it.

    1. Polanco and Cabrera play just about every day, Polly is always in the the #2 slot while Cabrera is consistently 3rd or 4th in the lineup. They are second and third on the team in plate appearances. Magglio was given every opportunity to play earlier in the year and Leyland pretty much left him as the #3 hitter (for way too long). He didn’t produce, but he’s had enough playing time to rate 5th on the in plate appearances.

      I don’t think they are suffering from Leyland’s linup changes, I think Polanco and Ordonez are starting to show their age (although Polly has been unlucky with his .268 BABIP) resulting in Cabrera having fewer opportunities to drive in runs.

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