Miguel Cabrera had an awful night at the plate on Friday. Miguel Cabrera had an awful night at the plate on Saturday. The difference between the two nights is that his face was cut and bruised on Saturday. This was quite noticeable to the media before the game and it elicited questions from Jon Paul Morosi and other media. The answer that Morosi got was that Cabrera’s dog was the culprit. It is a story that is hard to believe which has just led to more speculation.
The speculation will continue until actual information comes out. Dave Dombrowski acknowledged speaking to Cabrera about the situation but wouldn’t delve into it. Jim Leyland said he hadn’t noticed.
The thing with the secrecy is that it raises suspicions. If it were nothing I’m sure we would have heard about it. I’ve read 4 different rumors (I won’t delve into them here) which all reflect negatively on Cabrera. But unless Cabrera hooked up with Harold and Kumar it would have been impossible to have done all of those things in one night.
But the bigger issue is what information are we the public entitled to? As a fan of the team I would certainly prefer that the players were upstanding citizens and that they performed on the field. At the same time, what they do on their own time is really nobody’s business as long as it isn’t criminal and doesn’t adversely impact the team. Is it really our right to know in any other case?
Professional athletes are public figures (and are compensated handsomely as such) but while that status does come with increased responsibility and exposure it doesn’t mean that their right to privacy is completely abandoned either.
The speculation and potential outrage is enhanced because of Cabrera’s recent struggles. He’s had a couple of bad games. There is no evidence at this point tying scrapes and bruises to a couple of 0’fers.
I understand the media have a job to do so they will keep asking questions. I understand that fans are curious. I understand that tensions are high as the team struggles down the stretch and it’s biggest hitter is nowhere to be found at the plate. But let’s can the speculation and wait to hear actual news.
For more on this, I recommend Mack Avenue Tigers take on the situation.
UPDATE: Cabrera blew a .26 when police responded to the domestic disturbance at 6 a.m. on Saturday morning.
UPDATE: The Detroit News is reporting that Birmingham police were called to Miguel Cabrera’s house early Saturday morning for a domestic disturbance.
I mostly agree unless the incident involved staying out clubbing until 3am on a pennant race night. Its like politicians and philandering, only relevant if it impacts job performance.
Ah it is interesting but it is water under the bridge and I’m sure it will be forgotten if he has a big game Tuesday.
By the way check this
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7533/batvspit;_ylt=ArGBsFhATug7YfV7uhqcAlKFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching
And check Fred Fred against the Twinkies
I say don’t pitch to Kubel if you’re Porcello
And if you’re Leyland you’ve got to be starting the following list –
Magglio! Guillen, Thames, Santiago, Granderson and Cabrera… and might want to rest Poly or Inge.
We must win!
Interesting stuff. Also according to that chart, they should not start Nefi Perez. I’m sure Leyland would try to if he was available.
If Miggy got into a scrap with Washburn or any other player that might be dogging it, then I solute Miggy for his leadership.
If Laird scratched his face while they were having a towel fight in the showers, then that’s just too embarrassing to make public.
It’s just stir the pot kind of speculation. I really don’t care about the scratches on Miggy’s face. I’ve had bumps and scratches for various reasons, like from doing yard work, or playing basketball, or from a cat accidentally clawing me, or from playing with a dog, or from some drunk idiot hitting me in face while I was waiting in line at Taco Bell.
If you put me in the same room with some of the people from here I’d probably end up the same way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5_1WEb8w0&feature=player_profilepage#
is what I’d like to do to the Twins (for all you dbz fans)
AS EPIC …AS EPIC AS IT GETS
best show ever
“Records show police responded to a ‘family trouble’ call at the home of Detroit Tigers first baseman Miguel Cabrera.”
From http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10171550/Report:-Police-called-to-home-of-Tigers-1B-Cabrera.
Not good.
Out drinking til 6am w/ White Sox players, gets in a fight with his wife, blows a .26… Nice.
6 am?! .26 on a game night?? this is how serious our player are about winning their division?! I can imagine the conversation… “We can clinch this division with a couple wins… ah, F it… lets go get plastered, and stay up all night, we get paid no matter what!!!”
all i can say is WOW.
ouch. ouch. ouch.
Really. I understand they can go out and have fun but come on Miguel. Terrible. I hate to say this but he should have sat the game and let Marcus play. The guy would have been drunk.
I’m not surprised at all. The scratches looked like he either fell or got hit by a woman. His eyes looked like he was hung-over. He must have come home drunk and she went off on him. Wonder if his buddy Ozzie Guillen was with the partying group that night? Probably still crocked when he said his dog scratched him. It’s unfortunate, but maybe this exposure will help him keep it on the down-low and stay at home a little more.
The problem is, it might be too late for this season. We are now down to one game in which ANYTHING could happen. This is thoroughly disgusting.
Just wow! .26 is triple the legal limit. And that means he was probably still legally drunk at 1 or 2pm when he headed out to the ballpark and catastrophically hung over/deyhdrated at game time. That is absolutely, massively unforgivable.
Probably the 2nd worst huge game pre-game incident since that Atlanta Falcon got arrested with a prostitute the night before the Super Bowl.
Again, he’s making 20m, the team is playing for their lives, and he blows a .26 at 6am.
And he is signed for 5 more years
Detroit News had the story first, but this Freep article has a lot more detail:
-Yes, he really was out partying with the White Sox
-After the police came, the wife wanted him out of the house. Dombrowski picked him up from the police station around 7:30 or 8:00 am.
-If you blow a .35, they take you to the hospital!
-Injuries to both his and her faces, broken chain and cell phone. Police determined both husband and wife were “aggressors” but neither would talk or press charges
Yikes
And this totally impacts the whole team. Your star hitter has to bailed out by Dombrowski, it gets around the clubhouse, other players get pissed, and the end result is a terrible, terrible performance by the entire team.
I am kinda looking at this differently… who is to say Cabrera was the only Tiger out till 6am getting destroyed? Maybe it was a whole group of guys. Which would really show us fans how much they care about their team, fans, and the postseason.
To think how much I spent this year in tickets, parking, food, drinks, etc. to see these guys… and for what? If they don’t care, why should I?
If there were more Tigers there, it would really throw a wrench into the whole “We’re playing hard because we know the poor people of Michigan need it” crap.
The terrible performance already occured. Maybe he had to drink if off. I know I did.
BTW: It is a pity he is no David Wells( thrown a perfect game and doesnt remember it).
Seriously now, MLB rules forbid con- fraternization. When Sosa greeted Mc Wire he should have been fined according to the book. When that pitcher from San Diego sat down in the mound after tricky Rose hit the record breaking hit he was playing by the rules but was trashed by the press( He later killed himself) . And Cabrera get a free pass for partying with the “enemy”? In the Old Times some player didn’t spoke even to their teammates . Of course nobody wants a Ty Cobb spikes up sliding in second but a certain distance would be welcomed
Get ready for some David coming your way.
Normally, I wouldn’t have a problem with any of this. It’s unrealistic to expect these guys to go 9 months a year without at least a few good parties. It’s also unrealistic for them to pretend their not friends with their peers. But that was a huge fricking serious. If he’s not going to focus then, when is he gonna focus??
Wow. Just Wow.
Apology.
Dave D. should be fired. It is criminal to allow a drunk guy to play.
How did he get home from The Townsend? I sure as hell hope he walked. Leyland should have made him sit Saturday (he jknew what happened) and honestly, they should probably make him sit tomorrow. What an idiot.
When you are that guy making that kind of jack you have no business putting yourself in that situation. What an enormous letdown to the organization, his teammates and the community.
He has to come out and apologize immediately. And mean it.
I’m not going to get sanctimonious and demand apologies. The guy either realizes that he’s made a mistake and feels bad about it or he doesn’t. After years of celebrity/athlete apologies, I’d just assume he didn’t get on camera and read “I’m sorry…” from a card, its less patronizing that way.
Fans aren’t the ones he needs to be worrying about apologizing to at this point anyways, he’s got a wife and kid to worry about — you know, important stuff.
I’m not defending him or what he did, but when there’s a family and a domestic dispute involved, I think that my feelings as a fan should be pretty low on the list of his priorities.
Wow, it’s worse than I thought. It’s bad enough to be out drinking all night, but to hit your wife? (His wife had an injury to her lower lip when police arrived). I hope his wife got some good licks in on him.
That’s pretty crappy that the only thing Cabrera hit all weekend was his wife.
I was at Both games. Miguel is fun to watch. He is like a huge kid having fun. Sat and Sunday he was a shell of himself.
Before the Sunday game he and Mags talked the whole time during the national anthem and stood by them selves. It looked like they were talking about how to handle things with teammates.
Well, on the bright side, we may have started narrowing in on a decent nickname for the 20 Million Dollar Man.
I submit for your consideration, “MC Hammered.”
Thank you and good night.
Miguel Cabernetra
And I’m not a prude about this kind of stuff. Stay out to 2am, have a six pack and call a cab I can understand. Stay out to 6am, drink a pony keg, fight with the wife, not so much.
Yeah, that’s lousy. Especially when there are kids involved as was the case here.
I think there’s a couple huge points here…when we were at Friday’s game, and they managed 1 hit through the first 8 innings against Peavy, and followed through with 17 scoreless innings, you had to wonder whether they gave a darn in the most important series of the year. The team certainly didn’t look like they cared enough to play hard.
Further, the Tigers have made a big show out of “caring” for the blue collar fans plunking down their hard-earned $$ for tickets…and then their highest paid player – who’s been useless during the aforementioned series – feels its ok to go out a get loaded regularly before and after games – including with the OTHER team!
At .26 BAC at 6 a.m., there’s no way he wasn’t still “under the influence” by the time first pitch was thrown the following day. Babe Ruth, he isn’t.
I will be shocked if the fans are not openly hostile to him the next time he steps onto the field at the Copa. In fact, if he’s smart, he will issue a big public apology and perhaps make a show about entering rehab, etc. Or, he can just say “I got my money” and try to ignore it, in which case, he’ll enter into Juan Gonzales territory very shortly.
“At .26 BAC at 6 a.m., there’s no way he wasn’t still “under the influence” by the time first pitch was thrown the following day. Babe Ruth, he isn’t.”
Hung-over, maybe. With a 7pm start time, he wasn’t drunk (assuming he didn’t have more before the game).
If you stopped drinking at 4, when he got home, and still blew a .26 at 6 am…you will still have alcohol in your system 13 hours later, and most likely, still borderline unable to operate a motor vehicle.
Body size and metabolism is different for everyone, but alcohol breaks down at approximately .015 per hour, so it would take him 17+ hours to to come down from .26….or still approximately .065 at game time (.08 being DUI territory). Functional, perhaps, but certainly not the way to go into one of the biggest games of the year.
Yeah, never did the math on that…just kind of went by past experiences post-bender. I guess he’s putting me to shame.
Guess I came off as defending him, not my intent, definitely agree with your last bit.
Let’s just say this, how about a 10 p.m. bed-check tonight? Would that be out of line?
I would always tell people that part of the reason I’m so happy to be a Tigers fan is that you could count on waking up in the morning and not seeing an article like this. What really gets me angry is he was drinking with the enemy. So he’s dumb enough to put himself in a position where they are in control and can get him trashed. The guy is only 26 years old; I guess he needs a nanny. As a season tix holder whose post-season money has been out of my hands since August, this really makes me sick.
that being said, Big Game James, that’s pretty funny.
I hear you cib, I can let him (presumably) hitting his wife slide. But man, I will NOT abide him knocking ’em back with the pale-hose.
I don’t understand this drinking with the enemy thing. It would be better if he was getting plowed with teammates? With fans? It makes no difference who he was drinking with.
This isn’t high school where you hate everyone you play. These guys are professionals and have played on the same teams, national, minor league and major league. They have friends on other teams, its ok and normal.
You can be offended that he was wasted 12 hours before a game that may have clinched the divsion. It’s not worse that it was with the Whitesox. Also, it means the Whitesox were out and maybe Ozzie’s rants aren’t so farfetched.
He can go two ways with this. He can go the eff you route and I don’t care what the fans think, the Milton Bradley. Or he can apologize say he made a mistake and try to improve himself, the Josh Hamilton.
Or he can drive in 4 tomorrow and he can do whatever he wants.
This is correct.
Actually Andrew in TO, the Detroit News DIDNT have the story first.
Jeff Moss @ Detroitsportsrag.com Had it first.
Sorry your HORRIBLE msm let you down again.
What is msm?
MainStream Media
Sorry, I feel really bad now. 🙁
oh this is probably and isolated incident ..He probably hasn’t done this before…….YA RIGHT!!!!!!
maybe Ozzie is smarter that we think…take Miggy out make sure he get hammered,,,,he goes 0-12 good job White Sox
I think this is a turning point in Cabrera’s career. If he has a big game Tues, + apologizes I think he will be finally welcomed by the Tiger fans. BUT, if he struggles, + we lose he will NEVER be forgiven. As a matter of fact, he will be traded by next year. The Red Sox have wanted him for a long time. I could see a trade with them. Either way, he better see that he has alot of god-given ability. Its time he realizes it + takes his job seriously!
I agree that Tuesday could be a turning point, but I would disagree that it would be the point where fans “finally welcome” him. Seems to me that he’s been pretty well received for some time now.
In his time here, Cabrera seems to have given a favorable impression to fans, especially coming into this season where he seemed to be in great physical shape. His attitude, until this past weekend, had almost never been an issue. Since this seems to be an isolated incident (the family thing anyways), its pretty presumptuous to say that fans will never forgive him.
And yes, there’s always that inevitable Boston trade…
thx cib 🙂
I do agree though this is a terribly serious issue. It’s sad to hear of the situation, hopefully in some way the Cabrera’s relationship can recover and grow stronger despite the difficulties.
From a fan standpoint, the Tigers traded 6 players (I’m off the D Train like everyone else) for a freakishly talented 12-year-old in a grown man’s body. The risk of the deal is emotional development. What was known is the ceiling is sky high concerning potential. We are still waiting and trusting for the mental/emotional maturity to come.
Miguel has an opportunity here for this to be a building block toward a successful career. Everyone makes stupid decisions (yes even me), the separation is between those who learn from stupidity and those who repeat it. I trust the organization is working hard to help Miguel grow from this, time will tell.
As Detroit fans, we are familiar with stories such as Charles Rogers’ path to the bottom all to well. May Cabrera’s journey take a different course. Here’s to traveling well!
I have tried to read all the accounts available prior to responding. Here are my thoughts.
In any organization, Business, Home, School, Baseball Team, Chess Club…..The actions of one person can effect the entire organization.
The bottom line is, when any organization invests their capital in you. ie, A company gives you salary and benefits, A spouse gives you love and trust, You owe it to that organization or individual to give back 100%.
This incident seems to have had a demoralizing effect on the whole team.
My guess is this is not the first time this has happened.
A baseball team is like a family.. If a member of that family behaves with total disregard for all other members of that family, it is a recipie for disaster.
I hope this is isolated to Miguel, to think that multiple members of the team would undermine the efforts of the others is beyond irresponsible it would be pathetic.
Cabreras behavior is an affront to the team, to Jim Leyland, Dave D., Mr. Illitch, the fans and to Major League Baseball as a whole. It has the taste of a dishonesty and diminishes the product of Baseball.
I miss the days of character clauses in contracts.
When Maggs was struggling you could see the man’s pain with every weak ground ball, with each swing and miss, with every GIDP. I re-watched a few at Bats this morning and the look on his face was more of a who gives a f___.
Whether it is justified or not, every time MC goes 0-fer in the future fans and teammates alike will be wondering if he’s been out all night getting loaded. And every time he goes 0-4, I will personally be feeling sorry for Mrs. Cabrera.
The absence of any direct comment or apology from Miggy is arrogant and solidifies my opinion that he doesn’t care what other people think.
go tigers???
Well said, WCT.
I think the Tigers and Miggy are making this worse with their continued silence and “dog” excuse. They need to get out in front of this.
“This incident seems to have had a demoralizing effect on the whole team.”
Really? What’s your evidence of this?
“Cabreras behavior is an affront to the team, to Jim Leyland, Dave D., Mr. Illitch”
I think those individuals are capable of making that determination.
I just can’t get over the .26 BAC. You figure he got home at 6, the altercation happened, the police was called, Cabrera was taken down to the station and he was processed and given a breathalyzer. That all probably took an hour suggesting his BAC was probably .29 or .30 at its highest. That is dangerously close to alcohol poisoning. If Cabrera weighs 240, the amount of alcohol that would have to be consumed to get to .26 or higher is staggering: we’re talking 18 beers or 12-15 cocktails or 2 to 3 bottles of wine. We’re not talking a night with the boys that got a little out of hand, this is the type of binge drinking that kills people.
Wow. Just Wow.
Not trying to be flippant, “cute”, and definitely not trying to brag here…however, the quantity of drinks you describe above isn’t astounding over the course of a night. 18 beers is pretty doable in 3-4 hours, I’m 26 and 230lbs. That amount in that time is much more likely to put be to sleep than it is to black me out/poison me…if that makes sense.
Again, I don’t mean to make light of it, its definitely binge-drinking, but its not life threatening in a 21-shots-on-your-bday kind of way.
Actually, it is exactly 21 shots-on-your-b-day kind of drinking. If you do 3 shots every hour for seven hours, that’s not recreational drinking, that’s ‘time to get a sponsor’ drinking.
I definitely point out that its binge-drinking territory, not recreational. None of this should be taken as defending what Cabrera did, only to point out that I don’t think it falls into the life-threatening category.
When I think 21st birthday, I’m thinking the reverse of your shot-split: 7 shots / hour for 3 hrs, which is much more dangerous.
And don’t forget the other end of the timeline: if he was at .26 around 7 am, where was he at 7 pm? The 0-4 takes on a new light; it’s pretty impressive he even made contact given that he might still have been too drunk to drive.
Gallows humor aside, the fact that Dombrowski picked him up in the morning puts him and Leyland on the spot to answer some uncomfortable questions about playing him that night.
What a terrible situation all the way around.
Here’s the math from an alcohol awareness website:
If you are male and weigh 240 pounds and you have consumed 23 US beer(s) evenly over a period of 7 hour(s) then…
Your estimated blood/breath
alcohol concentration is
.260 g/210 liters of breath
The Alco-Sensor line of alcohol breath testing instruments is the most popular in the world with over 100,000 sold. The Alco-Sensor IV is the latest in the line and has been approved for evidential use in law enforcement and industrial testing throughout the world.
View Available Police Surplus & Used Equipment
The son doesn’t have cable, so I informed him about the incident and the alcohol content. He said, “oh, that ain’t bad”. The laws are so much stricter in today’s world, for a good reason. I’m alot older than many of you, but back in my twenties, we didn’t think a thing of getting loaded and driving around. I mean we thought about it, just did it anyway. The police were different then, too. Most of the time if we got stopped late at night they’d tell us (my friends and myself) to drive home and follow us home. Hanging out at a club and downing 10 drinks was about the norm for me. Now, I never have more than 1 or 2 with food. Too scared I’d get stopped and have to do a breath test. And, I’m sure not about to judge Miggy. If you are the judging type, you might try reading Ball Four.
This isn’t about judging, I’ve been known to have one too many and then to even post on the site here. But .26 is just in another galaxy. That is the ‘The Hangover’ type of drunk and it’s one thing to do that after the season ends, but to do it in the middle of the season-deciding series is just a mind-blowing abdication of basic level adulthood. It would be cause for malpractice if he was a doctor, a loss of license if he was a pilot, and the loss of a job if he was a teacher.
Hey, when Bill starts paying you $20,000,000 a year to post here, then we’ll start giving you hard time about drunk-commenting 😉
Leyland should never have played him and kept him out of the spotlight. I’m certain he would have done so for his best friend, Tony LaRussa. I’m just not that shocked or miffed by any of it.
Can you imagine the uproar if Cabrera was held out on Saturday without an explanation. We would have went nuts. I mean we went nuts that Polanco was held out Thursday with a bad back.
Well, that’s probably half the reason they DIDN’T hold him out of the game Saturday. If they had, they would have had to explain the whole situation and it would have turned into a media fiasco on game-day. Kind of like, uhh, this.
Yes I can imagine the uproar if Cabrera was kept out of the lineup–and people would have started asking questions. But just what did Leyland and especially Dombrowski think was going to happen? As soon as there is an arrest there is a public record (not to mention the 911 call) and it WILL come out. That they somehow thought they could pull the “my dog did it” and let it slide is the most mind-boggling aspect of this whole thing. I mean, seriously, Dombrowski, you KNOW better…
So was it worth it? Delaying the inevitable for about a day, in exchange for a useless, rally-killing, dehydrated, hungover performance? (Unless, as someone speculated, the whole bench was hungover also, in which case…well, that’s too painful to contemplate…)
I’m not going to judge a man for having a few cocktails. The big distinction is that MC did this the night before the biggest game of the year.
Kathy when you went out and got loaded, you didn’t have so many people relying on you to be at your best the next day. I’m also assuming you didn’t go home and hit your boyfriend,husband. I’m not judging the man’s soul just his behavior and judgement on that particular night. It shows lack of maturity, lack of respect for himself and for his teammates and for all the other folks who have invested in him both time(fans) and money(fans but mostly Mr. I)
Yes this is alot to ask of a 26 yr old, but he is being paid handsomely to carry the burden.
In most professions he would have been sent home if he showed up to work like that.
What would have been awesome is if MR. I picked him up from lockup, and Miguel asked him to take him to get a five dollar pizza.
In all seriousness … Miguel should not have played. That is on Leyland. As manager he should have said, “Son, you are not ready to play.”
Did anyone else see the interaction between Mags and Miguel before the game?
They were standing alone and talking during the national anthem. Did you see something else?
I’m also wondering how Miggy got home from the hotel to his house at 4am? I haven’t seen anything on this, but if he drove, it makes things even worse.
One thing I’ll throw out there.
If Cabrera was in fact drinking with, say, Ozzie Guillen (unknown just speculation) the two do have a connection since they’re both practitioners of Santeria. Not that it justifies getting plastered, but that could be a possible connection as to why.
Either way, this is a pretty interesting read from a couple years ago:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/santeria/santeria11.html
If only he would have had his head-on-a-stick buddy to watch out for him none of this would have happened…(I’ll look for the link if you don’t know what I’m referring to).
This is a huge distraction, the kind that feeds on itself and consumes a player/team/organization. I will reserve judgment on the scuffle — nobody truly knows what went down — but a .26 BAC is alarming twelve hours before the most important game of the season. It is unbelievably poor judgment, but I think it may be premature to begin questioning whether this incident marks a turning point in Cabrera’s career.
The best way Miguel Cabrera can apologize to his teammates is to go 4-4 in tomorrow’s game (including a game winning HR) and lead this team into and through the playoffs. Then let him focus on contrition and apologies to the fans and the community.
Of course if that plan doesn’t work — and if the Tigers get illiminated tomorrow and MG remains a shell of his former self, he damn well better hire the best PR guy on the market and launch his contrition and apology campaign immediately. He may just turn out to be the perfect goat for disillusioned and disheartened Tiger fans — warranted or not — for the epic collapase of 2009.
It’s just sour grapes. Fans wouldn’t care had if the Tigers won the division that night, and all the players celebrated until the morning hours. If we win Tomorrow people will forget.
I’d wouldn’t mind drinking a few cases of beer with some White Sox fans and telling them about how cut throat and disloyal some Tiger fans are. I’d tell them about how they wanted to dump Ordonez because of his vesting options. About how they wanted to ship Verlander to the minors back in April because of a few bad games. About how they have hated Rodney, Lyon, Miner, Zumaya, ect. About how they voted Inge into the All-Star game and then they started hating him again. About how they are always complaining about Leyland and Dombrowski. Many fans only use the internet to blow off steam and to start arguments, just like how I am now. Fans usually only get mad at players that don’t perform well. Miguel Cabrera is the best hitter on the team by a long shot, so I think fans will forget this after Cabrera wins us another game.
Mr. X, that would be about four bottles of sour grapes for Mr. Cabrera.
I just hope it is tomorrow and not next year.
And who wanted to send Verlander to AAA? That sounds made up.
Now sending Miguel to AA is believable.
I would post/hang out more around here but the “lil’ people” have pretty much taken it over IMO.
Fans on the radio, 97.1 The Ticket
Apologist slappy.
Mr. X, to whom do I send my resume to get a PR job for the Tigers?
I still wish they had dumped Ordonez, and I’m no big fan of Lyon. And as much as I like Inge, he really has hurt us a bit more than he has helped this second half and should have been benched.
As far as Cabrera goes, as long as he doesn’t get seriously hurt or injured and it is a one time deal then fine. People make mistakes and it isn’t my business what he wants to do on his free time.
If it gets to be a habit and he tries to destroy himself like some other players and is somewhat successful at doing so(Zumaya) then I’ll like him less, but he still is a very talented player. We already knew he didn’t have the best work ethic – his weight gain, here is just another example of his lack of respect for himself and his performance.
He is no Cobb that is for sure. Closer to Babe Ruth. (and this is not a compliment)
Wife /Girl friend problems can rip the soul out of a man’s heart. The bigger the problem the more drinking we sometimes do.
I hope things aren’t too bad for Cabrera.
People who drink alcohol in excess or who eat in excess are lazy, pure and simple. There are thousands of men who if were in Cabrera’s shoes would make more out of the situation than he has.
He has more $$ than 99.9% of people, has more hitting talent than most pros, yet he hasn’t maximized his potential. He isn’t focused and has no major incentive to be. He, his children and his grandchildren are easily set for life.
I hope he matures mentally and has several great years in the future, but if anyone thinks what he did this year is him maximizing (or even coming close to maxing) his potential are deluding themselves.
“People who drink alcohol in excess or who eat in excess are lazy, pure and simple.”
Next in ‘How to paint with broad strokes’.
Well either that, or they don’t care.
Or…….maybe they care too much? Who knows, stop generalizing.
Or maybe he doesn’t have that much natural talent but has worked harder than 99.9% of people to become one of the best in his profession. How do you know he isn’t focused?
Drunk? Who isn’t. If they benched players that showed up hungover Paws would be pitching and Rod Allen would be in left field. Impemba wouldn’t show up six nights a week.
Cavorting with the enemy? These guys play baseball, they’re not in the army. If Miggy hits .330 with 35 dingers and 100 RBIs every year he can break bread with Kim Jong-il for all I care. I don’t look to Miggy for moral guidance.
Hungover the night before the biggest game of the year (up to that point in time), that’s a punishable offense, IMHO.
Though maybe this dugout chaos is just what we needed to break out of the malaise that has been September.
I’m sure Dombrowski wasn’t too happy. I wouldn’t be if my job/reputation depended on my investments performance and my investment got wasted and beat up prior to a must win game.
It reflects badly on him, so I’m assuming he is skating on thin ice.
Yeah, that had to have been an awkward car ride.
Time to step up tomorrow and be forgiven or stink it up and be reviled. If they go south it will be the last memory of the season. For better or worse, Tiger fans have l o n g memories.
When have you ever seen a person who cared too much who was overweight for long periods of time or drinking every night.
The fact of the matter is, all freaky genetic conditions aside there are laws of energy (basic math) for the former and well common sense for the latter that suggest that it is a laziness/ lack of full devotion – lack of correct action/steps taken to alleviate the problem.
IMO it is one thing to have a slip up, but to say someone cares so much and is working so hard yet not able to do something long-term is like this is a pure and utter fallacy.
You and anyone who thinks it can’t be done is deluding themselves. I’m not saying either is easy especially if you’re addicted, but IF YOU WANT IT BADLY ENOUGH, YOU WILL GET IT. If not – you have a lack of motivation – then you are by definition lazy/apathetic.
It angers me to see people in denial and bsing themselves, but if you want to think he/anyone has no control over himself/herself whatsoever and he/her is still a child fine.
I’ve seen too many examples to disprove your theory.
There is a GIGANTIC difference between the words CAN’T, and DIDN’T.
End rant.
You’re either very lucky or very sheltered if you’ve never encountered hard-working alcoholics or overweight people.
Luck can’t have too much to do with it since you’re a Tiger fan who was born too late to see his idol/god play, so I’m going with the latter.
Notice I said either
A) Lazy (non-hard working)
OR
B) Apathetic (they just don’t care)
The point I’ll make here is –
I’ve seen people who work hard in some aspects of their life, but fail horribly in either overeating or drinking (although I try to not associate myself with people who drink a lot)
The fact of the matter is if you are SERIOUS and don’t want to be fat you can eat less and move more, which is proven to work time and time again. Same with alcohol or drug addiction – if you don’t want to be self destructive (notice I wrote want – you do care and are not apathetic) you stop drinking/doing drugs as much, and or seek help if you need it.
Those that don’t care are the same ones who repeat past mistakes for years. If you are trying to tell me that they do care, yet do nothing then it doesn’t make sense at all to me.
I’m sorry but I personally have experienced it to be the truth.
Oh and Cobb destroyed himself at the end of his life by doing a lot of these things. It is sad, but IMO it is preventable.
“Notice I said either
A) Lazy (non-hard working)
OR
B) Apathetic (they just don’t care)”
You weren’t nearly as qualifying in your original statement, to which I took exception. There’s some truth to the things you say in your last post though, but still a little narrow-minded for my tastes.
Also, you revise too much after posting (without noting that you do), so its a little hard to stay current.
haha sorry, it isn’t by design.
I tried to fix some of the English as to make it more readable.
I guess in your view I’m narrow minded, but I believe in freedom and with that comes responsibility. And I do believe that for the vast majority of people many simple things that people say can’t be done, actually can.
To say this was out of his control, to me, doesn’t make any sense. I mean unless someone forced all that alcohol down his throat.
David,
Please go back and find where I said that this was out of his control.
Hint, you can’t. What you’ll find is that you said that alcoholics were lazy, pure and simple. I said that was a generalization, and implied inaccuracy, with regards to your statement.
Dead wrong.
On obesity, please educate yourself on the effects of industrial chemicals re: methylation of DNA during childhood and adolescence (bonus: also the most probable cause of the autism epidemic) and the effects of current farm subsidies and the dismantling of the FDA on the food supply.
On alcoholism, a cursory primer on neural networks will do.
There is a lot of nuance in this world. You should choose to pursue the knowledge to be able to perceive and understand it. Unless you are lazy and/or apathetic and choose to continue making un-/under- educated blanket statements. Which is an option.
Edit: I think I replied to Andre instead of David. My bad.
This is rhetoric, so please don’t get offended. You haven’t lived up to your potential either. What’s your excuse for not owning the Tigers? You must be lazy or stupid if you don’t have several billion dollars by now. That’s the kind of reasoning you gave Cabrera.
Better hope he isn’t hungover on Tuesday. I’ve been in the Thunderdome for 9 post season games. Your head and whole body can hurt if it’s going the Twins Way. It gets so loud. Anyone remember 1987? Doing it with a hangover would make me do the technicolor yawn.
Craig in Minneapolis
Now that this story has been filled in some more, it will be interesting to see if either the MLB or the Tigers decide to discipline Cabrera. I’m not sure if the MLB can, but I’m pretty sure the Tigers could if they wanted to.
Major League Stew mentions suspending him not just for the play-in game, but for the entire playoffs (if they make it). Do you suspend him to try to teach him a lesson early in his Detroit career? Does doing so risk alienating him for the remainder of his contract? Fan reaction? Would Illitch allow it? Would he demand it?
So many questions.
No. No. No. Yes. Horrible. No. And no.
Basically, any disciplinary action from the Tigers, if any, will come after the last game — whenever that will be.
Is this your hope or do you know something we don’t?
It’s the only logical move from a purely business stand point. I don’t know anything more than you do, but if it is anything different, I’d be absolutely shocked.
Suspending him now might be the right thing to do. But really it would be hurting the Tigers.
The best thing I think is to try to motivate him in some way to be self motivated and offer help.
IF I were DD and co. I would focus on active prevention since he is a key cog of our team/success. I would do all in my power to help make sure it is not a problem while his performance is crucial (while he is in an old english D). Even moreso at a critical time like this.
Since he is signed for awhile and the $$$ is a given, busting your relationship with him will only hurt things long run.
I would think he is ashamed and would want help if he thinks he is prone to repeat it, I hope I’m right.
It would take a lot for me to bench him. And if they would have done it, I think it would have been done for yesterday’s game. So I don’t think there is any chance of this happening in the near future.
McKeon benched Cabrera for a game or two in the first round of the 2003 playoffs vs the Giants, after lackluster play in the field and at bat in the first game.
There were rumors out here in the SF area at the time that there was more to it (they varied between Miguel out partying and clubhouse fighting rumors), which I didn’t pay any attention to at the time…obviously now I have to wonder in retrospect.
When Cabrera got back in the lineup he went on a tear. I think Leyland should have taken a hard line like McKeon did (of course McKeon had a pretty decent backup for him at 3rd–Mike Lowell–and Leyland has..Thames…).
It’s hard not think of all this in terms of his un-clutchiness also. Rationally, I realize it’s a huge reach to connect the two; it’s hard for me though to look at all this and not see a guy that has problems dealing with pressure and expectations…
Don’t judge…. that’s hilarious. The guy gets paid a superstar salary and then gets crushed partying ’til dawn with a member of an opposing team, all on the eve/day of the most important weekend of the season for the team that pays him, and some fans think he should be given a free pass. He shouldn’t even be benched or called out for it. Yeah, that’s the message we want the players to hear, put getting crushed ahead of the pennant race, it’s cool. Ha Ha. Don’t be dedicated to the team or be focused on the most important task at hand for the team, rather, inebriation, RIGHT NOW, is the most important thing, it can’t wait ’til the off season. HA.
this
although i’d rather fine him heavily or give him a very strict warning (assuming one wasn’t given previously)
Well, as we now know, he was given a previous warning.
well i don’t know what to do
i’d be inclined to suspending him
if I were DD I’d take a poll of the veteran ball players and see what their reaction would be
if most of them were fed up, and thought he need to be made an example of, i’d suspend him
if not maybe not
my guess is though that $$ will win out and he will be playing. the tigers do NOT want to give back all the money they got for the playoff tickets
A poll, that would be awesome. That way the pro-Cabrera and anti-Cabrera players could be pissed off at each other on top of everything else. And maybe leak names to the press so the fans would know who to rip for what. And then it would be like being in New York! Cool…
Oh man.
http://detnews.com/article/20091005/SPORTS0104/910050376/Tigers-warned-Cabrera-after-bar-altercation-in-August–reports-show
“During an altercation at a Birmingham bar in August, Detroit Tigers slugger Miguel Cabrera allegedly mocked a teenager about his weight and challenged a man to a fight in an incident that resulted in no criminal charges but prompted Tigers management to order Cabrera to avoid the bar, according to information provided to The Detroit News.
“But Cabrera apparently returned to the Townsend on Saturday, police said, in the hours before he returned home drunk and got into a fight with his wife that prompted a call to police. Cabrera was taken from the home by police but not charged.
“A representative of the Tigers told police that Cabrera admitted he lost his composure on Aug. 31 in the Rugby Grille at the Townsend Hotel and blamed it on his recent batting woes and marital troubles with his wife. He had just gone 1 for 14 against Tampa Bay and told Tigers officials his wife had returned to their native Venezuela.”
– link
Holy glass houses…picking on an overweight dude for no reason…one thing more disturbing than an incredibly drunk guy is an incredibly drunk bully…
Upon further review, I don’t know what I would do. There are pros and cons of suspending him, or not.
I think he needs some help though. Hopefully he wants to get help AND takes action to do so.
It’s remarkable to me that Dombrowski — and thus Leyland — knew the history, and saw firsthand his condition on Saturday morning, and there he was in the lineup Saturday night. Yes, as a few people pointed out above, sitting him would have triggered an uproar, but it’s the same uproar going on now. In my opinion playing him that night just makes the organization look horribly skeevy in a way that could and should have been avoided.
I can agree with that.
I mean if he was warned, and he repeats it, you have to follow through otherwise you lose all credibility.
Indeed. I would have been fine with benching/suspending him Saturday. “Come to work ready to work or don’t come at all.” It’s hypocritical and counterproductive to bench/suspend him now, though.
And then after that I said
David October 5, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Well either that, or they don’t care.
and you replied
“Or…….maybe they care too much? Who knows, stop generalizing.”
I quickly revised my first statement because I agree it was a generalization. But with those two categories (lazy and apathy) I think it is complete and not a generalization anymore.
Anything else?
Yes.
First, you seem hit-or-miss in your ability to use the “reply” function.
Second, your inclusion of “apathy” into the categories defining addicts certainly makes your defenition less generalizing, but hardly “complete”.
Third, unless you have some specific training or schooling in addiction, it would sure be nice if you’d cease opining on the subject so authoritatively (or not, as seems to be the case).
That should suffice me for now.
1) Reply doesn’t show up for me when there are a bunch of replies already used.
2) What would you add? In my experience 99% of the time it is either one or the other. People who care do something about it.
3) I go from personal experience and learned experience from viewing others. If you want to start justifying/defending weak and destructive behavior of others and/or yourself go ahead, but don’t expect me to agree.
You either want it or you don’t. KISS principle.
I’m done arguing what I said or whether this is right. You argue just for arguments sake. And if you really believe that some people want things like these and cannot achieve them(as one of your comments suggested) have fun living in fantasy land where math reason and facts are nowhere to be found.
Math? Math has yet to cure suffering…
You can reply to the last reply-able comment in the conversation – it at least keeps the conversation together.
Your comments are utterly ignorant. Sure, many overweight and substance-addicted people are lazy and don’t care about getting help. But did you know that obesity correlates highly with certain factors of one’s upbringing? Try telling someone who grew up on McDonald’s and whose 400-pound parents never brought a vegetable into the house that they just “don’t care.”
And as for calling Andre out for ignoring math, is “In my experience 99% of the time it is either one or the other” the kind of math you’re referring to? Because I haven’t seen you cite any other.
My comments are ignorant? WHAT?! You’ve got to be kidding.
Are you living in a fantasy land sir? Do you know the law of conservation of energy – energy cannot be created or destroyed? calories in-calories out is the major tug for weight gain/loss, THAT is a FACT
I don’t care if obesity correlates with being an Obama fan or looking at the sky or getting licked by a cat. Sooner or later a person is (AND SHOULD BE) responsible for their actions. Here in the US of A that is 18. If you think you can blame the parents while their kids and the habits they instill and they are developing sure you can. But even then only to some extent. If the kid starts stuffing his face and continues until he is 30 are you still blaming the parents?
Also what is wrong with McDonalds? It is how much you eat, not what you eat that is the gigantic tug depending upon your goal.
Find me the members of concentration camps who had fat parents. Oh wait… Or fat bodybuilders? Or fat anorexics? Or fat sprinters? Or fat people who actually care?
This is a big problem in this country. This same argument is used to ban things. Lets ban guns. Oh wait it is people who pull the trigger. Lets ban alcohol, oh wait we tried that and it failed. Lets ban fast food or tax it to death. Lets ban smoking. Look, if the person is hurting himself/herself, they know at some level they are doing it and that they are responsible for themselves and have to suffer the consequences. If they are only hurting themselves they should be allowed to do so, but to say that they don’t know and are not responsible is the ultimate fallacy.
I’m sorry but history and concrete facts are on my side not yours. You and Andre can avoid the mirror and continue to blame someone/something else, believing that all these poor people are victims. In reality that is not the case and you don’t live there. I can’t argue with YOUR ignorance.
To be honest I’d like to come right out and say that the view you hold is one that is full of $***. It is plain false and a dangerous one to hold.
For nearly every person you can simplify it down to either apathy or a lack of action. People who want it, don’t stay fat, pure and simple.
If I do good or I do bad that is a reflection of myself. I deserve what I get be it good or bad.
David –
There is ignorance in some of your statements. Not everything is as black and white as you make it out to be.
I get up some mornings and work out at 5am. There is a guy at the gym that I see everytime I go – meaning he is there way more than me. I’ve seen him there for the last 5-6 years. He works out hard for at least 45 minutes. Sometimes it’s weights, sometimes aerobic (elliptical, treadmill). He’s 5-8 and about 230.
He’s obese, and yet he works out damn near everyday at 5 a.m. Clearly he isn’t lazy. Clearly he does care.
I’m not questioning laws of energy conservation. People metabolize at different rates for a number of different reasons. I don’t know what he eats, but just think how big he’d be if he didn’t work out as much as he does.
“Do you know the law of conservation of energy”
Yes. What does this have to do with whether all addicts are lazy or apathetic?
“I don’t care if obesity correlates with being an Obama fan or looking at the sky or getting licked by a cat.”
When a behavior correlates highly with other factors, it’s possible that those factors influence each other. Why would you not care to look at various factors if you’re trying to attribute causes to behavior?
“If the kid starts stuffing his face and continues until he is 30 are you still blaming the parents?”
Sure, to an extent. The fact that obese kids usually become obese adults is evidence that it’s not easy to overcome ignorance of nutrition or fitness. If adult obesity were random, then it would be easier to accept your argument.
“It is how much you eat, not what you eat that is the gigantic tug depending upon your goal.”
It’s both. And many kids aren’t taught the first thing about nutrition with respect to proper quality or quantity.
“Find me the members of concentration camps who had fat parents.”
I have no idea what you’re getting at here.
“This same argument is used to ban things.”
Who said anything about banning things?
“to say that they don’t know and are not responsible is the ultimate fallacy.”
Yes, you’re right. Everyone should come to their senses and get their life together. Infants who come out of the womb addicted to crack? Idiots. Kids whose parents are drunk every day of their childhood? Worthless. Never seen a grocery store? Slob.
“I’m sorry but history and concrete facts are on my side not yours.”
That’s amazing, because you haven’t cited any.
“You and Andre can avoid the mirror”
I can’t avoid the mirror. I’m too fat 🙁
“In reality that is not the case”
“It is plain false and a dangerous one to hold.”
People who constantly say that “the facts are on their side” are usually the ones who can’t provide any.
But it is Bill. Look I have trust in you. I’m sure what you see is correct that he works out hard. But working out hard is only a piece to the puzzle. Unless you’re spending hours a day the majority of your weight loss/weight gain is going to come from how much you eat or don’t eat.
Think of how big/small he would be if he took 3 months and consistently worked out AND AND AND counted his calories/protein/fat/carbs.
Yes some people have it easier and some have it harder, but in reality for most people can achieve if they really want it. There are many mental games people can play to convince themselves otherwise and sabotage their efforts.
I have learned through experience that it is a golden truth.
If he really wants to change and have his efforts in the gym mean something tell him to shoot me an email and I can refer him to an expert that will get his weight down fast – ie 2lbs/week.
But the majority of it is really that black and white. If he is maintaining at 230 pounds, then he is eating enough to keep himself obese. Come on. It is very similar to the Tigers playing in the 10th inning of a game, wondering why they haven’t already won.
I wouldn’t say this if I haven’t seen it play out time and time again.
Heck if you know anyone who is interested in knowing what path to follow and making it very simple (notice I did not say easy) email me. I can get you in touch with an expert.
But in reality and here is short sweet and golden advice.
If you want to get leaner/lose weight. Multiply your current body weight by 10-12.
Eat at least 1* your body weight in protein grams if not 1.25* it. Try to have the rest of your calories equally coming from fat and carbs. Workout hard for an hour every day alternating weight training and some form of cardio. And if you aren’t losing weight fast enough, or you stall wait 1-2 weeks. If you still have stalled up your cardio slightly and/or decrease your calories SLIGHTLY. And make sure to rest.
If you follow all of that and it doesn’t work either you are lying or you have some serious hormonal/genetic disorder and should see a doctor.
On the bright side, I’ve hardly thought about the Twins all day.
I was going to agree–but then I accidentally had the thought, hey, what if, after the Vikings game tonight, Joe Mauer were to have a beer with Favre, and next thing you know it’s 6 am and they’re both in a biker bar singing Bohemian Rhapsody at the top of their lungs, having no idea how they got there and no ability to stand up so they can leave….just a fleeting thought…
I think we need to see a picture of Cabrera’s wife.
If she’s scorching hot, then a lot of this will make sense. But if she’s just “aiiight” then Cabrera better find a more suitable scapegoat for his batting woes.
Blame Inge, I always say.
Something that strikes me (and it’s not the only thing nor the biggest thing) is what kind of a$$hole walks into his house at 6am after being out all night having a drunken cell phone conversation loud enough to wake up the whole house?
And who is on the other end of the call at 6am having the loud conversation?
Never mind, I guess he was talking to Inge 🙂
(see above)
“Iss ok, Ozzie, I home now. You think Nominos isss open?”
That actually sounds par for the course with B.A.C level of 0.26.
Alright, well this whole situation is a mess and its terrible for the organization and Cabrera, and OH MY GOD THE KIDS blah blah….
Yes, Cabrera is an idiot for being out until 6 in the morning, wasted, when he has to play the most important game in his young Tiger career 13 hours later. I don’t think anyone will disagree with that. He acted like an immature professional sports athlete (gasp!) and made what seems to be a myriad of dumb decisions.
What I do disagree with is people saying that he should be benched. Morally, there is a point to this. Strategically, its insanely dumb. The Tigers are trying to win ONE baseballl game tomorrow night. The stupidest possible lineup change that they can make is putting Miguel on the bench. The Tigers want to make the playoffs. The fans want them to make the playoffs. Miguel wants to make the playoffs (although it now seems that maybe he wants it less than his teammates). The only way the Tigers make the playoffs is by hitting their best all-around hitter #3 in the line-up. This situation needs to be dealt with, but that is what the off-season is for.
Sure, the Tigers can take the moral high ground, bench Cabrera, and puff out their chests and act like they put together this team to help revive the lowly city of Detroit. However, doing that is only going to make them look like a bunch of idiots (albeit ones that maintained their scruples). I’d rather have them do what they should do, and have tried to do, all year – win a ballgame.
All those comments are just conversation fodder. Miguel Cabrera won’t be benched tomorrow, or anytime after if the Tigers make the playoffs.
Cabrera sounds like a jackass when he’s drunk. I know plenty of people like that. It doesn’t make them bad people.
Word. Good people with bad problems are not bad people.
How do you know he’s a good person?
He could be a huge a$$hole (many pro athletes are).
It depends on how big of a jackass they are when drunk and how often (and what occasions) they drink. You can only apologize for drunken behavior so many times before the distinction becomes meaningless. “In vino veritas”.
I’m pretty sure I lived with Cabrera in college. Doesn’t necessarily have a drinking problem, but always has a problem when he drinks. Just a matter of when he realizes that he can’t ever drink again. Ever. At all. Hopefully this is it; this wouldn’t be too bad as rock bottoms go.
Come on. The guy can’t ever drink again? Ever?
Not buying it.
He just needs to lay off the sauce in October. Should probably go ahead and make that team rule. Wouldn’t think it would even need to be said, but apparently it does.
There are definitely people out there who should not be allowed to ever drink again, but not becasue they drink too much when they do, but because of who they become when they drink. I’m hoping Cabrera doesn’t fall into the latter category.
If he can’t self limit himself once he gets going, then it might be best if he has none. He and his employers have to make that decision. I’m not going to sit here and claim I know what he should or shouldn’t do.
I will say that I want him to play well and help us, so whatever maximizes our chances of being World Series Champs is what I would advocate.
ouchudied – not everyone has your value system so benching Cabrera is not necessarily dumb, it might mean that one values integrity over winning a baseball game. Although one could argue that if you’re concerned about winning long term, then benching him, maybe, just maybe it might be the smartest move. Playing him sends the wrong kind of message and can have a ripple effect that has long lasting negative effects. Player resentment, change in player work habits/behavior, and subsequent decrease in player performance. Players see that it’s ok to give in to their destructive impulses, that’s it’s ok to get obliterated to the point that you’re not ready to play. It’s ok to show up with a hangover, so maybe some do. You don’t think that can turn W’s into L’s? Maybe others don’t get crushed, they just lower their standards in other ways. Heck, if Miggy shows up hungover, so what if I miss that film session, so what if I show up late to the meeting, or any number of things. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. Everything has an effect.