4 games to go.
I distinctly remember the off days leading up to the ’06 series. I was watching John Kruk (on ESPN) during the Cardinals/Mets series, and someone asked him who his pick would be to win the NLCS. Kruk just laughed and said something to the effect of “does it matter? Detroit’s going to win the whole thing.” What a great feeling that was. And how quickly it dissipated after game 4 in Detroit.
I think we all felt that way leading up to Wednesday’s game, even in spite of the long off days WS stats. But now the stuff has hit the fan…check this out:
Of the 52 World Series to see a team go up 2 games to zero, 41 of those teams leading have hung on to win the series. Further, only one team out of the last fifteen trailing 0-2 has triumphed over their opponent. The Tigers are 0-2 in WS when they started 0-2.
From what I’m reading, many of you want to blame Leyland, but honestly, I just don’t see it. Here are my thoughts (just my opinion, feel free to counter):
- Game 1 is on Verlander. He gets lauded like an ace, he gets paid like an ace and he dates like an ace. He needs to pitch like one. To pin that one on anyone else is ridiculous. I don’t expect him to pitch a shutout every time out, but he needs to get through 6 or 7 and give the team a chance to win.
- Game 2- I actually agreed with Lamont’s decision to send Fielder based on where the ball was, and the moment in the game. At worst it’s a 50/50 call. I don’t want to release him for the blown decisions all season long, but I don’t think Lamont/or Leyland is to blame for game 2. You blame the bats or credit the Giants’ pitchers, but I don’t know what different managerial decisions Leyland could have made. If you want to question playing back for the double play, that’s fine, but the Tigers are an above average offensive team. We can’t be scared of a run.
But let’s move on.
I don’t want to talk about the rest of the series, I want to talk about one game. Let’s be honest, tonight is a must win.
The Tigers will have their work cut out for them against righty Ryan Vogelsong. Vogelsong returned to MLB in 2011 after 3 years in Japan. His 2011 campaign was good enough to land him an All-Star spot, and in 2012 he went 14-9 with a 3.37 ERA, .242 BAA and 1.23 WHIP. He throws a low to mid-90’s fastball (4 seam and 2 seam), along with a slider, curve and change-up. One of the greatest reasons for his improvement has been his K rate, which is 6.74/9 for his MLB career, but was 6.96/9 in 2011, and 7.5/9 for 2012. He’s striking out 8.52/9 this postseason.
Speaking of the postseason, he’s been phenomenal, posting a 1.42 ERA and a .89 WHIP covering 3 starts and 19 innings. His splits are pretty routine for an above average righty, and he walks about 3 per game. Oh yeah – he had a streak of 16 consecutive quality starts earlier this season.
Anibal Sanchez will need to bring his best stuff tonight. I like where his head is right now:
“We need to start over,” … “We need to forget what happened in San Francisco. I know we’ve got the talent. That’s why we’re here.”
Sanchez has the physical capabilities, and I have been impressed with his composure. Plus, he’s 3-1 in 5 career starts versus the Giants. Blanco is 4-7 off of Sanchez, and Pence is 6-18. Sandoval is 1-6 with 0 HR.
**********************
Here’s why we win tonight:
1) The Tigers were 22-8 at Comerica to close out the season and are 4-0 at Comerica in the postseason.
2) Andy Dirks is in the lineup and covering left field.
3) We’re simply too good to lose 3 in a row.
Tonight’s Back in the Series Lineup
1. Jackson, CF
2. Berry, LF
3. Cabrera, 3B (1-for-5 off Vogelsong)
4. Fielder, 1B (0-for-3 off Vogelsong)
5. Young, DH (1-for-3 off Vogelsong)
6. Dirks, RF (0-for-3, 2 K’s off Vogelsong)
7. Peralta, SS (1-for-2, 1 walk off Vogelsong)
8. Avila, C (0-for-1, 2 walks off Vogelsong)
9. Infante, 2B (7-for-11 off Vogelsong)
Good start..lot of pitches also…some patience maybe
Section 230 tomorrow we flew in from Cali….
Well, Fielder has that GIDP thing down cold.
Hey Prince you still get paid even in the Post Season
And Avila clowns what is potentially the winning run (the way things have been going) to 3rd base.
Thus.
And now Ajax dons the floppy shoes (very C-Mo)….this is 2006 redux.
More clown show defense rears its ugly head
Berry, the major leagues highest % base stealer gets on doesn’t go….hey Jim for the 1000th time..why does he bat second????
Because he has a terrible mind for baseball strategy. Berry shouldn’t even be on the roster to begin with, let alone batting 2nd.
Thanks a lot Berry, you terrible baseball player that never should have seen a single MLB atbat in your life due to a proven lifetime of being an unprofessional player. (DP just before Cabby can get to the plate, nice strategy Leyland, what a helluva plan)
I guess what 2006 and 2012 shows is that you don’t win a World Series with a Clown Show.
Well it’s a circus sport that allows clown teams to even make it this far. Every team in MLB is a clown team, this is a sport that is about who is the best clown team.
On the other hand, this all won’t matter, because we are about to score So Many Runs. They may not even be countable if you are following electronically.
If I knew We would be going down like this I would have rooted harder for the Yankees
TSE..I respectfully disagree..Berry earned this major league and WS spot
He had a long minor league career being terrible. He never earned a single atbat. He was given it without proper justification by an irresponsible GM.
Be just shouldn’t be batting second!
The fat lady warming up is louder than the Tiger bats!
Here’s the thing:
They simply have to shake off the bad inning, sloppy play, and two rally-killing GIDP and win this game. Period.
Two threats in three innings, Delmon hit the ball a mile, Sanchez hasn’t lost it, Vogelsong can be had. Take heart.
Berry deserves to be here. If not Berry then who? Raburn????
Remaining optimistic… Sanchez looking good, Young draws a WALK, Jackson owning center field (according to the ESPN radio guys, the earlier play wasn’t “clown,” dunno, didn’t see it).
Not only does Berry deserve to be here in the REGULAR SEASON…he contributed more than Avila, Peralta, Boesch, Santiago, Laird..and Raburn. OFFENSIVELLY
Lets do something….NOW
MVP up with bases loaded..you can’t ask for more than that………
Yeah I most certainly can. For a respectable team that plays the game in a respectable manner. Win or lose is ok as long as we don’t pervert the sport with a god-awful roster of junk players and terrible coaching and tactics all season long. This has been a sick joke of a franchise for many years, yet we still are fortunate to sneak through only because of the horrid deplorable nature of the competition, and still we can’t learn from our previous mistakes.
So yeah, you can ask for more, and I did ask for more, but I didn’t ask for very much. I asked for something basic than any totally non-incompetent owner should be able to provide.
Remaining optimistic…um,,, they loaded the bases.
That one is not on JL, please remember that.
Lots of baseball left gents….
Maybe about 12 innings worth.
Nice job again on that terrible atbat and all 3 strikes were terrible, not swinging at one, and swinging horribly at the two higher pitches. You are one disgusting piece of garbage Quintin Berry.
TSE did Berry not sign your ball at a game or something?
No I just despise the choices our GM makes, and I think allowing a person to ever have a single atbat in MLB that doesn’t qualify to even deserve a chance is DISHONORABLE to the game. It’s perverted and I have high standards.
Fine job, Anibal Sanchez.
11 high-quality starts in 12 post-season games. That is astounding.
SANCHEZ….keeping us in this game…..deserves better!!!
So do the fans and the Detroit community, even more so, at least Sanchez gets paid big money to be let down. The fans are the ones who get the biggest shaft. But they do get the right to pay high prices so Illitch can make a huge profit margin. SICK
QUINTIN Is sorry for egging your house when he was a little kid….he didn’t think you remembered him
Egging a house is a harmless prank. This is baseball where we have a $150MM+ payroll for players plus more for stadium and operating expenses and a state population of almost 10 million people that are getting poisoned by the awful efforts of a terrible owner. That’s a serious matter to get upset about, not some harmless prank of non consequence. Kids can egg my house all they want and it won’t really bother me, the rain will wash most of it off and I could care less about insignificant cosmetic appearances of my house’s exterior.
I don’t get it TSE.
Verlander got drilled in game 1. How do you pin that on DD?
Cabrera and Fielder have disappeared in the WS. How do you pin that on DD?
Ha ha. Thanks, we needed that.
I declare the above the RALLY POST the Tigers need.
Hope DD signs Sanchez..!
Hand the Ball to Anibal seems like a pretty good plan right now!
I didn’t expect to see Sanchez back in the 7th.
Well, don’t blame the offense. They were in a 2-0 hole after 2.
Hilarious.
Bats have just gone cold, they can wake up just as quickly. Have faith friends.
Baseball isn’t won with faith. It’s won with skill and intelligence putting you in the best chance to win. So we can all have faith and that’s great, but that won’t affect our odds in any way.
Not to add fuel to the Berry debate, but he doesn’t look good at the plate. At all.
And unfortunately, he’s had the most opportunity of anybody in the lineup to deliver.
Well again, he’s a TERRIBLE baseball player and not a professional level. If every team in baseball did a good job of building their rosters so that every spot was justified with the very best baseball players available, then Berry is worse than 100% of ALL of them. He’s never going to look good because he’s a PROVEN god-awful player. Numbers don’t lie, and that’s against minor league pitching. He’s actually defied his own odds of projected success and even those numbers aren’t even CLOSE to being usable.
I wouldn’t say he’s a terrible baseball player. He’s just not a good hitter. And he presses in pressure at bats (e.g. runners in scoring position, runner on 3rd less than 2 outs, etc.).
Rough game for Berry. He’s not the only goat or really the biggest, though, IMO.
You can’t blame the players for losing, they are just trying their best. It’s the guys who pick these players and manage them that deserve the brunt of the blame.
That makes no sense, TSE.
I disagree and think it makes perfect sense, and so I don’t see any point of contention where it doesn’t make sense since you didn’t supply one. But I’m having many issues with my posts not showing up so now’s not a good time to debate it, I will have to reply to any other comments tomorrow in a new thread and see if that works, this will be my last attempt of the night…
TO KEVIN:
I feel great, I would never feel low because of THIS team and what they choose to do.
and
TO JUD i mean, not “to just”…sorry I’m struggling to copy and repaste stuff and got off track with what I was saying when i lost my comment again.
True. It could be a new game in as few as 2 AB. I haven’t given up.
+1
You know whats a scary thought. Sandaval has done more in this series then the entire batting line up of the Tigers
OK, I’m looking right at you, Prince “1-21 vs. RHP” Fielder.
You too, Cabrera.
There are 30 teams sitting home watching this game…at the end of this series only one will win…..all 30 would trade places with Detroit right this second….
Agreed.
Doesn’t take away the sting, though.
Not to correct you, but there are 28 teams sitting at home watching the game. The other two are playing. But I get what you’re saying.
Just sayin’
If somebody is more awful than another, that’s not a justification for the less awful being awful without an appropriate excuse. I don’t think it’s fair to speak for others and assume they would want to be like us, considering we are flat out awful. That’s a matter of perspective and a complicated choice to analyze and I wouldn’t trade places to be Detroit if I was a fan of ANY other team. So I definitely disagree on behalf of every other team for various reasons.
Quick question… is Donald Rumsfeld helping you post?
Or is just rum?
Oops. Must be some rum in my coffee. Nothing like a typo to ruin a joke.
The reason Litchcum doesnt start anymore is because he cant throw strikes…Tigers must not have gotten the memo……
Unfortunately, the Tigers don’t swing at strikes. So it kind of works out in Timmy’s favor.
Give the Giants credit. Even for the last 2 awful Tiger Ks. They are pitching, hitting, playing like champions.
trying my reply to Kevin one more time:
We are talking ONE game, and there are TONS of things that DD and Leyland did wrong in Game 1 in addition to Verlander having a bad outing. And two players don’t make a team, that’s bad luck, but not a killer, our pitching has kept us in it and the other 7 hitters didn’t get the job done, because the VAST majority of them are not good players, AND our Manager FAILS MISERABLY at getting the most out of ALL of the players on our team with his TERRIBLE coaching and TERRIBLE strategy tactics.
This is worse than 2006.
No, I disagree. The 2012 Giants are better than the 2006 Cardinals were, for one thing.
Okay, let’s all root now for the Detroit Red Sox.
hmm Kevin, my reply won’t seem to come through, can you see in the comments section?
I didn’t say FANS I said any team would trade places with the Tigers given a better chance of winning the series actually playing, than sitting at home watching it on tv…even down 3-0
COKE!
wow my posts aren’t shopping up sometimes for some reason, trying again….to Jud, I was speaking on behalf of teams not fans with my post, so my point is still the same, and to the Donald Rumseld question the answer is no.
I guess I can’t reply to some strings but I can on others, seems pretty random. But I wouldn’t want to TRADE places with the Tigers, I’d want to EARN my way into a WS, and if I’m ANY team that isn’t happy with my team, then I can rebuild and do things the right way, but to be like the Tigers or swap with the Tigers would not be something that I think ANY team would want to do. If they do then I think they are making a bad choice and an unethical one that would only make them worse than they are presently.
to just since i can’t reply to your comments anymore so you have to look elsewhere for replies now:
Yes I have played on a baseball team for and a VERY good one, but that’s not relevant to this conversation and discussion point, and I fundamentally disagree with your point, and I think my position has no bearing on whether I have played on a baseball team. I disagree with you seeing any logic to make that connection, this post of yours I deem to be nonsensical.
TSE….then obviously you have never played on any baseball team…..ever
Engage TSE at your own risk.
Does anyone remember the relentless Miggy-hater back in 2008? Could it be?
DTW needs an Ignore feature.
just a thought for 2013
The chat interface could use some work as there are some issues with making posts, plus it’s hard to track when people reply, so there’s issues they must have to deal with where you can’t automatically build or customize all of the options that you might like to see. I’m not sure why they don’t have access to a format that has more flexibility.
I seemed to annoy people last year somehow, so I told everybody I would try to stay away for the whole season and just pop in for a hot minute for the postseason, so since most people here probably don’t care to hear my complaints about the team day in and day out, I promise you I won’t be super active next year. I might comment on a few big offseason moves or playoff moments, so it shouldnt be too much of a burden on you. The power to ignore can come from yourself, if you see my name and you are so terrified of having to read what I say, then just make a mental check to yourself and skip the content of my posts. Sorry for not offering you any enjoyable posts, but it’s not my fault that the team continually does awful things that a responsible fan should not accept and call them out on.
you are right. it’s Dombrowski’s fault.
If you would have told me the Tigers starting pitchers would give up 2 and 2 and they would be down 3-0 ..I would call you crazy
Look guys, all I can say, is that we all feel equally sh*tty. For any die hard of any team, this goes with the territory.
The reason why the highs are so high, is because the lows are so low.
Un–frickin–believable……………….
ok i switched to what is my normal screen name, that seemed to free up the posts, kevin and jud I just replied to your last comments under Smoking Loon’s last post way above just fyi
I remember all those Tigers’ fans carrying brooms during game 4 of the ALCS. Karma’s a bltch, aint she?
We aren’t losing because of Karma, we are losing because of idiocy of our GM and owner. Everything else is just details and extensions of that, but not Karma.
How about the stadium noise level in your decrepit City? Not too good now. Too bad
The City is not to blame for the Tigers, although the park is because it’s a terrible park. The concession stands and general operations are awful, it’s very cold and drafty in huge sections, there’s little protection from the rain, and I even hit my head in one spot where stadium structures hang too low in areas where people walk. The Tigers are lucky I didn’t suffer a serious injury and end up suing them. It’s just a matter of time before somebody does from the piece that got me with the head shot. A Giants fan said that sounded like his park but at least they had the excuse of building their park over 40 years ago!
It’s a sickly disgusting park that offers a terrible experience and atmosphere.
Maybe your manager can have another cigarette? Or your fat, ugly, loudmouth third baseman and first basemen can have another meal FU!
@YanksStill BetterTeam This poor guy. I’ve been watching sports for 40 years and I’ve never seen a team lay a collective egg like the Yanks did in ALCS. Makes the Tigers’ World Series effort look downright Ruthian.
Enjoy the last 5 years of A-Rod’s contract. And god bless!
I’m looking forward to a good outing from Scherzer. No matter what the bats do or don’t do, a fine performance from Max will be something to cheer on and be proud of as a fan.
@YanksStillBetterTeam
I think you mistyped your name. Here, I fixed it for you.
YanksStillBITTERTeam.
LOL!
Has Success Spoiled the Tigers?
That is despite a 4-0 ALCS win, were the Tigers set up for failure in the World Series?
While if you asked me this question one week ago, I would have said “No way, the Tigers are too hot” now I am sure that 5-6 day lay off impacted the Tiger; similar to the 2006 Tigers. The Tigers playing in this 2012 World Series are not the same Tigers we all saw in August and Sept, ALDS, or ALCS. That time off, which Sean Kelly was quoted that in “2006 it seemed like an eternity before the WS started,” has hurt our Tigers by reducing that fine competitive edge needed to win a WS. We saw this loss while we were in disbelief in game 1 when our pitching failed, and in Games 2 and 3 in our inability to score runs when we failed to hit with runners in scoring position. Meanwhile our World Series competitor didn’t have this layover as they were 1-3 the day we won the ALCS. (In the later innings of Game 3, Fox posted a sat showing the failure of teams who have had 5 fay layoffs to win WS. Later they showed a stat that only 1 out of 32 teams came back from 0-3.) A 5 day layoff and playing a non-layoff team are two tough strikes for the Tigers to overcome regardless who is your manager, what plan he had to keep them tuned in this lull, or what great 2012 regular season or pre-World Series post season stats were posted. It seems baseball is a game that you have to play daily to keep you honed or you will go sour. Mileage varies among players.
For me, this has been a rollercoaster ride. After sweeping the Yankees, my mindset was “bring on SF or STL as this team is hot and getting hotter.” As Kevin discusses in his above pre-game preamble, nobody expected the Tigers to lose that mojo in 2006, and now not certainly in 2012. That was 2006 and this is 2012! But it happened and it is hard to quantify this layoff by reviewing the stats. But we now have two data points (2006 and 2012) to compare between each WS and also to regular/postseason stats. The data is there and we need to find it.
I recall the start of the 2012 season and the discussion when the one-game wild card playoffs were announced. Traditionalists were saying “only one-game?” while MLB Commissioner Office who came up with this wild card game were saying “we can’t have a 3-game playoffs because the division champ teams would be sitting around!” Hmmm….there must be a lot of truth in that????
So what’s a good Tiger fan to do? We have too much honor to fall back on an excuse that the layoff hurt us. Getting to the WS is such a rare event that it needs to be celebrated regardless of the outcome. However if the Tigers make the 2018 WS and sit for 5 or 6 days, the outcome will most likely be the same (and perhaps predictable with data); you will see a different team than the one that got you there. So unless this pheonomum happens to the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers, MLB won’t do much about it, let alone talk about it. However as a starting suggestion, since both teams were ready to play last Monday, we don’t need to wait until Wednesday to start a WS.
In closing, what a sad way to end our wonderful 2012 season? What will be the long-term impact/outcome of this WS loss on this team and their fans attitudes? Already fans are starting to boo players and the WS isn’t over. Let hope Spring Eternal!
OTFiM (at 0630CDT and too sad to sleep-in)
I may also add that we have our WS competitor’s season and postseason stats to use as a baseline comparision when making any analysis.
Jl penciled Berry second nstead of the hot Infante.
Jl played for double play when he had to play with infield in.
Lamont killed the momentum shift.
Time to dump Fielder to 6th.
JL was calling the pitches and Blanco was expecting the breaking ball( Cabrera asked them to change the pitch after the timeout)
Jones got Verlander mad.
McClendon is unable to fix anyone. Jackson has a BABIP near the 2010 level. Last year was 50 points lower. He got lucky again, nothing was fixed
The bright side: the last game of the Pirates three headed monster.
You can’t drop Fielder to 6th. We only have a couple of decent hitters and this game isn’t about producing a consistent result day in and day out, it’s all or nothing with a lot of randomness to it, the name of the game is to play your best chips at the right spots and hope that you don’t get unlucky. Trying to predict when a higher odds event is going to fail and then to demote that bet in advance is not a good baseball strategy, it’s a superstition that is akin to a gambler trying to suggest that one number on a roulette wheel is better than another because some other number came in.
The past results don’t affect what will happen in unknown future events. It’s all about the probabilities and taking the highest chances you can when you can, and Fielder is our highest odds chance to hit well out of almost everybody on the team. He needs to bat as often as possible and now lower than 4th. There’s never going to be a lineup that makes more sense in any game where Cabby isn’t 3rd and Fielder is 4th, and Ajax being 1st since he’s the next best and he has no power so those 3 spots are perfect for those 3 hitters.
Well, this is all hindsight, but lets not forget this team had the 7th best record in the AL and made playoffs because they were in terrible division. They were never a great team. They have Verlander and Cabrera and Fielder and good starting pitching and a whole lot of mediocrity after that. Maybe it was too much to ask a slight better than average team to play lights out for an entire month.